Fareed Zakaria

And by the way, that play was not a USAID spend. It was an American ambassador who decided to help to fund a cultural festival in Ireland. So much of this is misinformation.

And there is a big bureaucracy and there is waste. No question about it.

And there is a big bureaucracy and there is waste. No question about it.

Well, and he was corrected by the Pope.

Well, and he was corrected by the Pope.

Yeah. You know, if you think about the mood now is this macho realism. You know, Trump is about doing deals. We don't worry about all these values. You know, we're just going to do what's best for America. We're going to use our surplus power. All of that evokes this kind of 19th century realpolitik.

Yeah. You know, if you think about the mood now is this macho realism. You know, Trump is about doing deals. We don't worry about all these values. You know, we're just going to do what's best for America. We're going to use our surplus power. All of that evokes this kind of 19th century realpolitik.

And what people forget about that world was it was a world of constant war, massive human rights abuses. The way that the rich countries thought about poor countries then was let's colonize them, let's exploit them, let's enslave their people.

And what people forget about that world was it was a world of constant war, massive human rights abuses. The way that the rich countries thought about poor countries then was let's colonize them, let's exploit them, let's enslave their people.

There's something weird about forgetting what that world entailed and forgetting how important it was that we had this revolution in international affairs over the last century where we've moved to a completely different place. And to my mind...

There's something weird about forgetting what that world entailed and forgetting how important it was that we had this revolution in international affairs over the last century where we've moved to a completely different place. And to my mind...

One of the sad ironies about all this is that the country that did more than any other country to effect that revolution, beginning with Woodrow Wilson, is the one now undermining it.

One of the sad ironies about all this is that the country that did more than any other country to effect that revolution, beginning with Woodrow Wilson, is the one now undermining it.

If you had told me, you know, who's going to undermine the open international system, the liberal international order 10 or 15 years ago, I would have said, oh, it's going to be the rise of China, or it's going to be the rogue actions of Russia, or it's going to be the Iranians. No, it turns out to be the United States of America that turns its back on its own creation.

If you had told me, you know, who's going to undermine the open international system, the liberal international order 10 or 15 years ago, I would have said, oh, it's going to be the rise of China, or it's going to be the rogue actions of Russia, or it's going to be the Iranians. No, it turns out to be the United States of America that turns its back on its own creation.

So I was thinking about it, and one of them, I think, would be Robert Kagan's book, The Jungle Grows Back, which is a short book that tries to explain the nature of this world that America built and how its erosion and decay will result in the jungle growing back, the jungle of realpolitik, war, poverty, and all the things that existed before.

So I was thinking about it, and one of them, I think, would be Robert Kagan's book, The Jungle Grows Back, which is a short book that tries to explain the nature of this world that America built and how its erosion and decay will result in the jungle growing back, the jungle of realpolitik, war, poverty, and all the things that existed before.

The second would be if you want to get a feel for 19th, 18th century diplomacy and its ups and downs. Henry Kissinger wrote a wonderful kind of history called Diplomacy. And it begins in the 17th century and it goes all the way to the 1970s, 80s, as I recall. And it's just called Diplomacy. And the third would be...

The second would be if you want to get a feel for 19th, 18th century diplomacy and its ups and downs. Henry Kissinger wrote a wonderful kind of history called Diplomacy. And it begins in the 17th century and it goes all the way to the 1970s, 80s, as I recall. And it's just called Diplomacy. And the third would be...

Again, thinking about this world America built, if you want a kind of a wonderful biographical lens into it, Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas wrote a book called The Wise Men. And it was a story of six people who were instrumental in building the post-World War II American order. So for all those of you who are fans of Walter Isaacson, this was actually his very first biography.