Fareed Zakaria

And he says, Mr. Gandhi, if the British just leave India, it's going to be chaos.

And Gandhi looks at him and says, yes, but it'll be our chaos.

And that's what I think most people don't understand sometimes.

People prefer their own chaos to a foreign-imposed peace, a foreign-imposed order.

And what Trump is doing is actually igniting nationalism and anti-American nationalism in places that have really never had it, like Canada.

Like Denmark, you know, like the Nordic countries, like Sweden.

I mean, I'm talking to these people and there you can feel that underneath they're trying to be polite.

There is a deep resentment at the way they are being treated.

And what are we doing this for?

I mean, that's to me the most bizarre part.

We're creating all these enemies out of allies.

For what?

For like the notional idea that we'll have more bases on Greenland, which we could have had anyway.

Yeah.

And in fact, even in Venezuela, I think it's important for people to understand, Chavez was hugely popular.

He won the first election absolutely genuinely.

Well, that's the difference between him and Trump.

These populist movements.

And the truth is, there are a lot of people who still believe in Chavez and believe.

So that's one of the reasons why this could get very, if they actually try a regime change, this would be very, very complicated because there are still, first of all, a lot of people with guns who are not going to give up power easily.