Frank Dobbin

And as a consequence, people often leave, and I'm thinking about white men in particular, people often leave feeling that they've been challenged, that they've been called a slur, a racist, or a sexist. And they often leave in a very kind of defensive manner, like feeling... they need to defend their own fairness.

And as a consequence, people often leave, and I'm thinking about white men in particular, people often leave feeling that they've been challenged, that they've been called a slur, a racist, or a sexist. And they often leave in a very kind of defensive manner, like feeling... they need to defend their own fairness.

And as a consequence, people often leave, and I'm thinking about white men in particular, people often leave feeling that they've been challenged, that they've been called a slur, a racist, or a sexist. And they often leave in a very kind of defensive manner, like feeling... they need to defend their own fairness.

So often people just leave the room antagonized or increasingly they're doing these online and they leave the session antagonized. And what we see in our research is that

So often people just leave the room antagonized or increasingly they're doing these online and they leave the session antagonized. And what we see in our research is that

So often people just leave the room antagonized or increasingly they're doing these online and they leave the session antagonized. And what we see in our research is that

That kind of training that's designed to convince people that they're biased and that then includes a legalistic component, which basically shows what kinds of judgments have been upheld against firms that were found in court to have... discriminated. So basically, here's the punishment your company might get for your biases.

That kind of training that's designed to convince people that they're biased and that then includes a legalistic component, which basically shows what kinds of judgments have been upheld against firms that were found in court to have... discriminated. So basically, here's the punishment your company might get for your biases.

That kind of training that's designed to convince people that they're biased and that then includes a legalistic component, which basically shows what kinds of judgments have been upheld against firms that were found in court to have... discriminated. So basically, here's the punishment your company might get for your biases.

That kind of training with the one-two, you are biased and your company might be punished in court for it, actually leads to decreases in the diversity of firms after they put that kind of training in. And the disappointing thing is that's the most common kind of training out there, something like two-thirds, three-quarters of firms have that kind of training.

That kind of training with the one-two, you are biased and your company might be punished in court for it, actually leads to decreases in the diversity of firms after they put that kind of training in. And the disappointing thing is that's the most common kind of training out there, something like two-thirds, three-quarters of firms have that kind of training.

That kind of training with the one-two, you are biased and your company might be punished in court for it, actually leads to decreases in the diversity of firms after they put that kind of training in. And the disappointing thing is that's the most common kind of training out there, something like two-thirds, three-quarters of firms have that kind of training.

So it's not that there's no kind of training that works, but... For the most part, what companies are doing sort of backfires. And it's ironic because if you ask them why they do it, they'll say, we'll get into legal trouble if we don't do it, which isn't strictly true.

So it's not that there's no kind of training that works, but... For the most part, what companies are doing sort of backfires. And it's ironic because if you ask them why they do it, they'll say, we'll get into legal trouble if we don't do it, which isn't strictly true.

So it's not that there's no kind of training that works, but... For the most part, what companies are doing sort of backfires. And it's ironic because if you ask them why they do it, they'll say, we'll get into legal trouble if we don't do it, which isn't strictly true.

So I personally think that some companies will try to do it in stealth mode. And some companies weren't really that committed to it to begin with and may not mind dismantling parts of it. But for those that are committed, I personally think we need to wait to see what sticks of the many things the Trump administration has tried to do. And that might mean...

So I personally think that some companies will try to do it in stealth mode. And some companies weren't really that committed to it to begin with and may not mind dismantling parts of it. But for those that are committed, I personally think we need to wait to see what sticks of the many things the Trump administration has tried to do. And that might mean...

So I personally think that some companies will try to do it in stealth mode. And some companies weren't really that committed to it to begin with and may not mind dismantling parts of it. But for those that are committed, I personally think we need to wait to see what sticks of the many things the Trump administration has tried to do. And that might mean...

making yourself slightly open to, say, federal litigation, but it's just hard to see how Department of Justice or the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission are going to get their act together quickly to, for example, go after companies that seem to have not abided by Trump's initial orders to cease all DEI activity.

making yourself slightly open to, say, federal litigation, but it's just hard to see how Department of Justice or the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission are going to get their act together quickly to, for example, go after companies that seem to have not abided by Trump's initial orders to cease all DEI activity.