How Did DEI Become Part Of A Political Agenda — And A Slur?
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What sparked the dismantling of DEI initiatives?
This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley. And today, we're discussing the rapid dismantling of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, commonly known as DEI, in both public and private sectors nationwide. One side of the political spectrum praises DEI, often referring to it as a major step toward progress. The other uses it as a slur, an example of woke culture gone too far. And it's become a challenge to debate its merits when we can't even agree on what it is. The cascade to dismantle anything called DEI began in January when President Trump issued executive orders to eliminate initiatives within the federal government and institutions that receive funding from the government. Since then, states like Florida, Texas, and Utah have banned DEI offices at public universities. And companies like Pepsi and Disney and McDonald's have done away or quietly shifted their focus away from initiatives that promote diversity, equity, and inclusion.
To help us understand the criticism, the developments, and implications, we're joined by two distinguished experts, Frank Dobbin, professor of sociology at Harvard University, and Ella Washington, an organizational psychologist and professor at Georgetown University's McDonough School of Business. Welcome to you both. Thank you for having me.
Thank you.
Well, I think it's good for us to start with some basics because I'm not even sure when I'm in conversation with people about DEI if we're talking about the same things because it's become such a broad term. So I think it's great for all of us to start with how you both define DEI. And I'll start with you, Dr. Washington.
Well, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion is the terminology that we use at the current date. And it should be noted that this terminology has gone through evolutions over the past six decades. At the core, what we're talking about with this work is creating workplace environments and systems in our society where everyone has the opportunity to succeed and everyone has the opportunity to thrive. That is the core of diversity, equity and inclusion.
I would say in simple terms, DEI comes out of legislation trying to assure equality of opportunity that is having the same chances in the labor market by race, ethnicity, creed, starting in 1961, and then by gender as well, starting in 1964.
Can you all remind us of the realities for non-white men in corporate America? I mean, corporate America, education, civic life, before those civil rights protections, which was basically another iteration, the earlier iteration of DEI as we know it. I think we have short memories, and 60 years have passed since that legislation was passed. And So the current discussion around DEI has become so muddled. I think it would be good for us to have an understanding before those protections on what the realities were in corporate life for people.
So before 1961, when John F. Kennedy issued an executive order requiring all firms with federal contracts and, by extension, all federal agencies to to practice what he called affirmative action, which means just taking positive steps to end the history of discrimination in employment. Before that time, most employers, most private sector corporations, would not hire black men except for a certain number of jobs. So if we take the example of Lockheed's plant in Marietta, Georgia, which was a huge federal contractor building military airplanes. They would only hire black men for a few jobs, such as janitor and washroom attendant. They didn't recruit very broadly. for black men. They didn't allow black men to any other kind of job. And they didn't provide the kinds of training that they provided for white men to black men. So they didn't provide skills training so that they could move up within the workforce. So the 1961 Affirmative Action Order got Lockheed to really change their ways.
I think it's important to remember as well that in 1961, Jim Crow laws were still in effect in the South. enforcing segregation in housing, in employment, in education. And just because the North didn't have those laws didn't mean that there wasn't the same kind of employment discrimination that we saw in the South.
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