Inside the 'modern slavery' where cyber scammers are victims themselves
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This week on Up First we talk about the economy. Trucks, trains, and tractors run on diesel, which is now priced at record highs, with less than fifty days until the midterm elections. So the next six weeks are gonna be intense. Let Up First get you through it one morning at a time with three stories you need to know each day. Listen to Up First on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Have you ever been targeted by a cyber scam? Maybe through an email or text message that sounds convincing and tries to get you to send money or your bank information. There are so many cyber scams out there now. As you'll hear, our show has been fraudulently represented in one of those. AI is making these scams easier to pull off, making fraudulent schemes even more lucrative. The romance scam is the most lucrative. That's when someone reaches out to you via text or online who you've never met in person, and eventually you fall in love. The object of that affection professes to love you and eventually lures you into what they say is a great investment opportunity. You send the money, and then more money and
Soon all your money's gone and you never hear from that person again. Some major crime organizations behind scams like this are based in Laos and Cambodia. My guest Andy Greenberg wrote about one such organization for Wired magazine, where he's a senior writer. That story involves human trafficking. Greenberg was contacted by a young computer engineer using the pseudonym Red Bull, who was tricked into moving from India to Laos with the promise of a good IT job. When he got to the compound where his job was supposed to be, His passport was confiscated, he was turned into an indentured servant, and forced to engage victims in cyber romance scams. Living conditions were awful, so was the work. Red Bull managed to leak over three months of internal videos from inside the crime operation, including WhatsApp group chats, revealing details of how this operation actually functioned.
This investigation will be included in Greenberg's forthcoming book. The Grayscale True Stories of Hackers, Outlaws, and Vigilantes from the Online Underground. He's also the author of books about the crime lords of cryptocurrency and about Russian hackers. Andy Greenberg, welcome back to Fresh Air.
Very glad to be here.
What is the romance‑scam operation that Andy Greenberg uncovered?
Thank you, Terry.
So I want to start with a scam that has fraudulently used fresh air and you you've been targeted by a similar scam. We've heard from authors who have gotten invitations allegedly from our show. In my name, in our co host Tanya's name, or someone else on the show, one of our producers. saying w you know, we love your work and that therefore the writer is invited to be a guest on fresh air. And the reason why the authors contacted us is that something seems suspicious about the email. And in fact, if the writer contacted the person who sent the email, they would be told You have to pay and it's typically about two hundred fifty or three hundred fifty dollars in order to defray costs of the interview and help support the show.
So they're trying to get money from authors. So this is horrible because some people actually pay and are defrauded of money. Other people are just let down because they think they're gonna be on a national show and they're not. And also it it sullies our name. We would never dream of asking a guest to pay to be on our show. Other NPR shows, other podcasts have been also fraudulently represented in this scandal. And tell what your similar scam is.
Yes, I I've gotten these emails. I'm an author. So I've gotten emails from, you know, fake agents, from fake publishers. Just yesterday I got an email from someone describing themselves as an editor at Penguin Random House, um, praising my last book and uh wanting to work with me on an another project. I I d I don't think that this scammer realized that my last book was published with Penguin Random House, so it was kind of a giveaway. But it was very flattering and And you know, I'm sure if I'd pursued that conversation, it would have led eventually to them demanding a payment before we could go any further, just as the scammers impersonating fresh air are asking for these fake uh so-called production fees.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:01–2:32
2
What is the romance‑scam operation that Andy Greenberg uncovered?
2:32–8:38
3
How did the engineer known as “Red Bull” become a victim and forced scammer?
8:38–13:57
4
Why were authors targeted by a fake Fresh Air invitation and how did it work?
13:57–20:13
5
How is AI being used to automate and scale cyber‑scams?
20:13–25:54
6
What is “pig‑butchering” and why is it the most profitable cybercrime today?
25:54–30:54
7
How do scammers employ AI‑generated emails and video deepfakes to deceive victims?
30:54–37:35
8
What future threats could fully autonomous AI scams pose?
37:35–50:02
Speakers
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