Friedberg

So that's my plea and my reason for going through this today.

Happy birthday, Xander.

Happy birthday, Xander.

I think that was another epic discussion. People love the interviews. I could hear him talk for hours. Absolutely.

I think that was another epic discussion. People love the interviews. I could hear him talk for hours. Absolutely.

All right, everybody, welcome back to the all in podcast. We're trying something new today. You all love when we do interviews. You love the great content that came out of the all in summit. But you also want to not miss an episode of the four of us talking about the news of the week. So today, we are doing our first episode of what we're calling the all in interview. What is the all in interview?

All right, everybody, welcome back to the all in podcast. We're trying something new today. You all love when we do interviews. You love the great content that came out of the all in summit. But you also want to not miss an episode of the four of us talking about the news of the week. So today, we are doing our first episode of what we're calling the all in interview. What is the all in interview?

Well, it's two of us interviewing one guest as opposed to 4v1, which is quite unfair sometimes and a little bit unruly. And so we're planning on doing these as an experiment, maybe 10 times a year. Since we know you love interviews, and today we are really excited because we have Jonathan Haidt with us. He is a fearless author of some really amazing books. Freeberg, you have read all four of them.

Well, it's two of us interviewing one guest as opposed to 4v1, which is quite unfair sometimes and a little bit unruly. And so we're planning on doing these as an experiment, maybe 10 times a year. Since we know you love interviews, and today we are really excited because we have Jonathan Haidt with us. He is a fearless author of some really amazing books. Freeberg, you have read all four of them.

I have read two of them. So why don't you give us your take on these four books, Dave, and then we'll kick it off to John.

I have read two of them. So why don't you give us your take on these four books, Dave, and then we'll kick it off to John.

And to bring this from a graduate school class and the 40,000 foot view you guys are talking about and bring it down to the reality of today, maybe 20 years ago, 25 years ago, a lot of folks were building mobile social applications and they figured out, hey, games, gamification, levels, being in martial arts, going from white belt to yellow belt, scoring, becoming in Dungeons and Dragons,

And to bring this from a graduate school class and the 40,000 foot view you guys are talking about and bring it down to the reality of today, maybe 20 years ago, 25 years ago, a lot of folks were building mobile social applications and they figured out, hey, games, gamification, levels, being in martial arts, going from white belt to yellow belt, scoring, becoming in Dungeons and Dragons,

19th level wizard or whatever, this becomes highly addicting. And they built it into these products. And then once they built into the products, we then passed another Rubicon, which was, hey, let's just hand this to machine learning or AI, and have them do the gamification without it being explicit. And that's really tick tock. So you had the gamification of Twitter and Facebook, which was likes,

19th level wizard or whatever, this becomes highly addicting. And they built it into these products. And then once they built into the products, we then passed another Rubicon, which was, hey, let's just hand this to machine learning or AI, and have them do the gamification without it being explicit. And that's really tick tock. So you had the gamification of Twitter and Facebook, which was likes,

retweets, follower count, Instagram, and then now it's transitioned into something even more pernicious, which is some black box on in Tiktok knows, this is going to maximize the dopamine hit. So this is kind of gone. This is an experiment that's gone awry.

retweets, follower count, Instagram, and then now it's transitioned into something even more pernicious, which is some black box on in Tiktok knows, this is going to maximize the dopamine hit. So this is kind of gone. This is an experiment that's gone awry.

And what you're speaking to is the velocity here, I think, as well, huh, Freeberg? And the velocity of the change is just, I think your TV analogy is really interesting because we're both, I think we're all three of us Gen Xers here.

And what you're speaking to is the velocity here, I think, as well, huh, Freeberg? And the velocity of the change is just, I think your TV analogy is really interesting because we're both, I think we're all three of us Gen Xers here.

And I think, Freeberg, you're the tail end of Gen X. We would certainly take in the Gen X draft. When you look at this, The TV analogy is so good because we did have a moment in time where TV got faster and was gamified. It was called MTV. And they were like, hey, let's make this a lot faster. You're right. Now you're just going to watch three minutes. It's called a music video.