Gabriel Zuckman

very small number of people.

Yes, they have a great deal of concentrated wealth, but there are a small number of people.

We're going to get onto the details of what you're proposing to do about it.

So I don't want to sort of go that far ahead, but just on the principle of it, even if you were to tax them at the sort of levels that we're talking about, would it make that much difference?

It might make that much difference to the state's fiscal situation, the UK's fiscal situation, France's fiscal situation.

Well, the government deficit is around £70 billion a year, so £15 billion, it's not nothing as part of that.

And what about the idea, which again is put forward, that it is... In fact, you've identified it with Bezos, which is that if these people aren't getting income...

If their wealth is sitting in these companies, which is going to productive purposes, which is going on a new cap, a purchase for new capital and employing people and so on, well, then why should they be taxed?

Then they should simply be taxed in the way that would be normal.

If they're not deriving income from it in the traditional sense, then why and how should they be taxed?

I was also very struck by your argument, which I think is a compelling one, which is to, of course, look at income tax in a historical perspective, because we think of income tax as being just such a staple of life.

But of course, it's quite a modern innovation.

You know, most states, late 19th, early 20th century, it becomes permanent.

Your view is that, in effect, that revolution in how states fund themselves has been or is incomplete because it is not extended to the super-rich.

The House of Lords famously didn't like that very much.

The Beatles famously wrote about it in one of their songs.

So that's the problem.

When we come back, we'll be talking to Gabriel about what he'd like to see us do about it.

So, Gabriel, I've already mentioned you have an eponymous tax, the Zuckman tax.

What is your proposal to deal with this problem of the super wealthy taxation?