Garrison Davis

But, like...

we have a good deal of people who like, they're obviously not going to be opposed to migration if they themselves are migrants.

Exactly.

That doesn't always apply.

There's a famous video of the Turkish guy complaining about migrants as he enters the United States.

Oh yeah.

I mean, of course, I get what you're trying to say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There are people whose views on the world and the way it should be might not be that different from yours.

We only find out by engaging with each other in good faith as people, not as tropes, which I think is a huge part of the problem.

I do think the language...

barrier is an issue so many people on the left want to talk about places but not talk to the people and can't and then we only see a small subset of discourse translated into english yeah i mean that's kind of what i mean by like you know everyone wants to be for the people but very few people actually are because being for the people takes a lot of effort because you need to learn languages you need to visit places you need to talk to people who you might on the surface disagree with

You might have to think about what they tell you in order to come to a conclusion yourself about what's actually going on and how you can actually support these people while not compromising your own beliefs and your own knowledge and experiences.

Right.

So that takes a lot of work.

So that's what I meant by that.

Like very few for the people in that sense where they engage and actually go and try to talk to us.

And I think that's the best way of being informed of any issue is just talking to the people.

But it takes a lot of work.