Gary Jubelin

And they're scary, those dogs.

Well, a couple of things.

And I just wanted to bring that out early in the podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is how low it can go, and there's highs and lows, and we'll talk our way through.

But I think it's also good, and it shows humanity, and I'm sure you draw on that down the track, that here's your archenemy, the cop that's been chasing you for 20 years in that cat and mouse game, and saying, hey, mate, you need help.

This is not the time to kick you.

This is the time to help you.

Well, yeah, and I know the life got worse for you after that.

It wasn't the sort of the watershed moment that turned everything around.

Yeah, exactly.

But in the same regards, it could have gone a lot worse.

If they turned up there and went hard at you and put the boot in and all that, you would have come out more angry and, okay, well, maybe you'd become a worse person.

And so is a seed in your brain.

Yeah.

And you think, okay, well, I've seen that before.

Someone's actually done it for me.

Let's talk about your upbringing.

Where did you grow up?