Gavin de Becker

He goes to meet with Epstein in New York.

to ask for money for a charity.

And Epstein is perceived as this big billionaire, which he was not, by the way, I'll tell you in a second.

And Epstein is in a robe, and they're across the desk just like you and I are.

And Epstein says, hey, they're finishing the meeting.

He says, hey, I'm going to get a massage, hence my robe.

You want to get a massage?

And through the hallway, my friend can see a massage table and a room and a very cute girl who's the massage therapist, right, dressed like a massage therapist.

And so he happened to say no.

In fact, interestingly, he happens to not like massage, which is itself – a lot of people would say yes and might even think it would improve my relationship with this guy, Jeffrey Epstein, who I perceive as this rich guy that I'm trying to get money from my charity.

Had that happened, what a different world for that person.

What a different life.

Because in that room –

is cameras and then eventually audio.

It didn't start off with audio, but audio was added later.

And then you're getting a handjob, if I'm allowed to say handjob, from somebody who you don't even think about their age, but turns out to be 17.

And you are in a world of trouble for the rest of your life.

And that's a big piece of what was going on with Epstein, with cameras in that apartment in New York and eventually audio cameras and eventually audio at the island.

My take on it, and certainly my public take, is that there was a profound blackmail operation going on to the benefit of probably more than one government, but at least one government.

And when I said a moment ago he wasn't a billionaire, he wasn't a billionaire.