Geoff Knupfer

And he said, right, you can go and live with your mother down in Manchester.

So that's how he moved from Glasgow to Manchester.

And, of course, these two, as I say, they were working in the same place.

He studiously ignored her for months on end.

She thought he was just this most wonderful guy.

I mean, he was one of the few guys there who wore a collar and tie, you know.

He was a clerk.

I think in the sort of accounts department and of course he was just very aloof with her the whole time and then the fateful Christmas party and of course they met at the Christmas party and the rest is history he had serious psychological problems there's no two ways about that

personality disorder and he was a schizophrenic as well and he persuaded her that abducting kids and murdering them was okay I mean it's hard to even think you know how do you get somebody to do that yeah but she did and

You know, I've often been asked, well, what would have happened to her if she'd not met Ian Brady?

Well, I think she'd probably have just got married and had a family and gone on with life.

But a psychiatrist once told me, I was kind of politely told off by this guy, and he said, well, you know, she must have had the predisposition to take this sort of stuff on.

And I suppose that you can't argue with that, really.

It's true.

But it's horrific.

I mean, it's absolutely horrific.

And she always said that...

She wasn't physically involved in the murders of these children.

She was certainly physically involved in the abductions.

She was clearly guilty of procuring these victims for him, and therefore she was just as guilty as he was, and she was.