Geoff Shackelford

But I certainly know in the last few years,

people being able to, uh, well, one, obviously some restorations and, and Beth page was really important in that, uh, conversation, even though, you know, it's not, uh, as, as brilliant as other things Tillinghast did.

It's more that it was done and it's been sustained and it's, it's bled out to the other golf courses and all that stuff.

Um, uh,

But it's, yeah, simulators, people getting to play A Famous Place now and realizing, oh, yeah, this is more interesting.

Bandon was Mike Kaiser's projects, obviously a huge player in all that.

And I don't think it really matters what the actual thing was.

It's more about making sure we sustain it.

That's why things like the National Links Trust concept at East Potomac, which was done without a golf tournament in mind, is so important.

We don't want these things to have to be relying on a golf tournament, a major coming, because we know there are compromises made in the name of doing that.

So, yeah, it doesn't really matter what it is.

It's more about how do we now keep that momentum going and have it spread to more places, because we just have so many –

places that that uh were magnificent and they're a little run down and if and and obviously an operator will say well we're busy what do we need why do we need to refresh the bonkers and do all your uh you know uh architectural stuff well it's the right thing to do and it just does make the golf better when we know when a place

It's presented in a way, and I'm not just saying the conditioning, but the design that it's like they're trying and they care and they want it to be interesting for you.

It doesn't have to be over the top, but people know the difference between the place that's trying and presented in a way that cares about the game and wants to make your game more interesting without beating you up.

So it's a great time that way.

No, but we have, at least in the United States, we have so much that is brilliant that could be so much better.

And yeah, I understand your point about...

not having dues and things like that.

But, you know, a lot of the time we know that in the grand scheme, when a course is shut down for nine months to, to redo it 10 months in certain, you know, some places it takes longer because of weather, but it's just not that easy.