George Saunders

It's kind of a life energy.

It's kind of an aspiration to bring out the best in yourself.

So I don't think it's really led me astray much.

It's kind of like, you know, if you were, I mean, not to invoke a violent metaphor, but if a person is in an alley getting beat up.

And they notice they're only using one hand and the other hand is behind their back.

That's really silly.

You bring out both hands, you know.

So ambition, because it's such a source of energy, I think, for all of us, you know.

I mean, just natural.

So to say, yeah, I'll take it.

I'll use it.

And I'm not going to completely bow down to it.

I'm not going to treat it as God.

It takes so much, you know, to make a work of art that matters or that even not matters, that expresses who you are.

Mm-hmm.

It takes so much energy.

You know, like you can say, I'm going to let the ambition in.

I'm going to keep it on a short leash.

I'm going to use it to get through this writing session, and I'm going to let it dissipate.

send it on its way exactly I mean it's funny the state of mind you're in when you're writing I am it's like kind of you can be really beautiful and pure and concept free and I'll be hit a nice moment in the story make a nice fix and a little voice will go oh the New Yorker is going to love that you know and yeah okay welcome to the table now get out of the way you know so I think sort of say like well whatever your mental process is I bless it and I'm going to use it and then I'm not going to get but I'm also not going to