George Saunders

And the whole thing is to try to work with those somehow.

Maybe in some traditions, you could take a negative emotion and convert it to a positive emotion.

So, I mean, this is the thing about this kindness shtick that bugs me is I can be struggling through a day with, say, with our sick dog.

And what I'm doing all day is just trying to be, do the right thing for her and interrupt narratives of anxiety that I'm having about what I should be doing, how long do I have to do this before I have to rush off.

That's a whole day.

And then you get on a call and someone says, tell me about your approach to kindness.

It seems so hypocritical and it seems so partial.

Because yes, kindness, of course, and empathy and all that stuff.

But if you are an adult, that stuff has to take place on a much higher level than just intending to be kind.

Well, I think, and first of all, I think I have a, I had, or maybe still have, a misunderstanding of kindness being niceness.

Kindness is a deep concept and it's not about nice.

I think it's about being beneficial in the moment you're in.

So kindness is,

wouldn't have to be tidy and mincing.

It's something else.

And so I almost feel like striking that word from my personal vocabulary, because it's confusing.

But so if you have anger, then I would say the primary thing is to go, yeah,

You know, it's almost like if you had hunger, what would it be like to go, oh, no, I'm not hungry because that's not virtuous.

You're hungry.

That's all right.