Ginni Rometty

But so you've got to do something.

And at first, I think the ways for big companies, I would call them like blunt clubs.

You do what everyone does.

You reduce layers.

Because if you reduce layers, decisions go faster.

There's just, it's math.

If there's less decision points, things go faster.

um you do the blunt club thing and then after that though it did lead me down a you know a long journey of they sound like buzzwords but if you really do them at scale they're hard around things like agile and um because you've really got to change the way work gets done and we ended up training god hundreds of thousands of people on that stuff

On how to do Agile correctly.

On how to do it correctly.

That's right.

Because everybody talks about it.

But the idea that you would really have small, multidisciplinary teams work from the outside in, set those sort of interim steps, take the feedback pivot, and then do it on not just products, do it on lots of things.

It's hard to do at scale.

People always say, oh, I got this Agile group over here of 40 people.

But not when you're a couple hundred thousand people.

You got to get a lot of people to work that way.

The Blanc Club thing you're talking about.

So flatten the organization as much as possible.

Yeah, yeah.