Glenn Greenwald

You're just feeding, you know, people what they want to hear and you don't feel free to say what it is that you want.

But I think there are more than enough people out there.

I know this is the audience I've always tried to build and I think I have cultivated over a large number of years.

that don't want that, that don't want to just be patronized that way, that don't want to just feel like they're part of a choir.

They want to be challenged.

They want to know that you're giving your best efforts to understand things, communicate what it is that you're seeing, what the evidence demonstrates, and be convinced and not just kind of pandered to.

And that's where independent media can thrive.

But of course, there's all kinds of

As you said as well, it's subject to secret payments and all kinds of corrupting influence.

And there's definitely a lot of that going on as well.

There's no way to avoid that.

But on the whole, I think the benefit that independent media provides, just the plurality of views, the diffused information dissemination, those benefits are very significant.

Well, he talked, I mean, Charlie Kirk lost donors on exactly the same issue that you referenced that you did, which was Israel.

And, you know, in particular, it wasn't even things that he was saying.

It was people that he was inviting.

The idea of like, you know, a talking point was always that it was this big tent uniting force that would bring all the different factions of American conservatism, the American right together.

And.

Once people like Tucker Carlson started, you know, really aggressively questioning Israel and the U.S.

relationship with it, started talking about Epstein as a Mossad agent, and then went and did that at Talking Point events, a lot of the funders that were funding Talking Point were, in Charlie's own words, Jewish billionaires.

And they were...