Gordon Carrera

For an intelligence service, yeah.

As opposed to on his own behalf, yeah.

Sure, sure.

And it's interesting, when I spoke with

a lot of these, you know, former CIA officers over the past few days as we've been putting this together, there was unanimous agreement that that very clickbaity salacious piece of the theory is extremely unlikely.

The other type of sort of source is someone who's collecting what we'd call FI or foreign intelligence.

You know, think, you know, the series we did last year on Adolf Tolkachev, the billion dollar spy.

You know, he's a Soviet spy

you know, engineer working at the heart of the military industrial establishment.

In the mid-1980s, he is passing the agency plans for avionics systems and Soviet fighter planes.

He's got access to FI.

He's got state secrets, right?

He's got access to secrets, yeah.

Right, exactly.

I mean, we did the Venezuela episodes.

This CIA source, the source the agency seems to have had that was very close to Maduro and was passing information on his pattern of life, that is not the sort of information that

That Epstein would have had.

I mean, he might have had little bits and pieces of stuff, right?

But he doesn't really have ongoing access to sensitive state secrets.

But there are types of contacts and sources beyond FI producers.