Gordon Carrera

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

One of the things I was saying was some of the confusion over how the servers were accessed and whether it was direct access. And I think that also points to one of the challenges with these stories is that Snowden had often provided a set of slides and charts to the journalists

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

But he hadn't necessarily always worked directly on these programs because he was an IT guy rather than on the whole a kind of intelligence analyst. And so one of the problems was he hadn't actually necessarily worked the programs or didn't necessarily know all the details. So they're left trying to decipher it.

And sometimes, as we know, people make shortcuts in how they write slides and do presentations. I take offense at that as a former management consultant, Gordon. My slides were perfect and accurate. Clear and concise. It's fair to say these slides were not meant for public consumption. And, you know, there are more questions raised by that initial Guardian article. For instance, whether...

And sometimes, as we know, people make shortcuts in how they write slides and do presentations. I take offense at that as a former management consultant, Gordon. My slides were perfect and accurate. Clear and concise. It's fair to say these slides were not meant for public consumption. And, you know, there are more questions raised by that initial Guardian article. For instance, whether...

And sometimes, as we know, people make shortcuts in how they write slides and do presentations. I take offense at that as a former management consultant, Gordon. My slides were perfect and accurate. Clear and concise. It's fair to say these slides were not meant for public consumption. And, you know, there are more questions raised by that initial Guardian article. For instance, whether...

GCHQ had access to this data, which they did have in some cases, what's called the Five Eyes Alliance, which is the kind of five countries, US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, who basically cooperate, particularly on signals intelligence. And they're not supposed to spy on each other and they're not supposed to spy on their own citizens without kind of warrantry and legal things.

GCHQ had access to this data, which they did have in some cases, what's called the Five Eyes Alliance, which is the kind of five countries, US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, who basically cooperate, particularly on signals intelligence. And they're not supposed to spy on each other and they're not supposed to spy on their own citizens without kind of warrantry and legal things.

GCHQ had access to this data, which they did have in some cases, what's called the Five Eyes Alliance, which is the kind of five countries, US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, who basically cooperate, particularly on signals intelligence. And they're not supposed to spy on each other and they're not supposed to spy on their own citizens without kind of warrantry and legal things.

And there are all these questions, well, is this being used to get round it? Didn't necessarily appear to be the case, but suddenly all these questions are kind of thrown up partly because all of this had been so secret. There'd been a vacuum of understanding. There'd been no kind of public knowledge about these programs. So suddenly, everyone is like, whoa, what are the spy agencies doing?

And there are all these questions, well, is this being used to get round it? Didn't necessarily appear to be the case, but suddenly all these questions are kind of thrown up partly because all of this had been so secret. There'd been a vacuum of understanding. There'd been no kind of public knowledge about these programs. So suddenly, everyone is like, whoa, what are the spy agencies doing?

And there are all these questions, well, is this being used to get round it? Didn't necessarily appear to be the case, but suddenly all these questions are kind of thrown up partly because all of this had been so secret. There'd been a vacuum of understanding. There'd been no kind of public knowledge about these programs. So suddenly, everyone is like, whoa, what are the spy agencies doing?

But if you go back to that time, I mean, some of it was confusing. It was stunning and confusing, I remember. If you then talk to people now about what it was like in GCHQ, Britain's intelligence agency, I mean, there is blind panic when particularly PRISM comes out Ian Lobben, who was then the director, later said, when I heard the news, I lay awake saying to myself, I hope this isn't a Brit.

But if you go back to that time, I mean, some of it was confusing. It was stunning and confusing, I remember. If you then talk to people now about what it was like in GCHQ, Britain's intelligence agency, I mean, there is blind panic when particularly PRISM comes out Ian Lobben, who was then the director, later said, when I heard the news, I lay awake saying to myself, I hope this isn't a Brit.

But if you go back to that time, I mean, some of it was confusing. It was stunning and confusing, I remember. If you then talk to people now about what it was like in GCHQ, Britain's intelligence agency, I mean, there is blind panic when particularly PRISM comes out Ian Lobben, who was then the director, later said, when I heard the news, I lay awake saying to myself, I hope this isn't a Brit.

Because, you know, they've realised they've got a leak. Some of it looks like it relates to Britain. You know, he's reported to have gone round colleagues asking, is anyone in your teams at GCHQ taking a long holiday? And also, I mean, the US tried to get him to lean on the Guardian to get him to stop it. And he's like, you know, that's not what we do.

Because, you know, they've realised they've got a leak. Some of it looks like it relates to Britain. You know, he's reported to have gone round colleagues asking, is anyone in your teams at GCHQ taking a long holiday? And also, I mean, the US tried to get him to lean on the Guardian to get him to stop it. And he's like, you know, that's not what we do.