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Gustav Söderström

👤 Speaker
588 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And I know you've been doing it a long time, how it's changed over time to reflect the learnings of what makes it work or fail.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And I know you've been doing it a long time, how it's changed over time to reflect the learnings of what makes it work or fail.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So the concept itself is actually really straightforward. It comes from the Kanban board. It comes from the developer community, which actually comes from car manufacturing eventually. Oh, interesting. It's really the concept of stack ranking, which is very easy in theory and very hard in practice. Very few people manage to say... This is actually more important than that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So the concept itself is actually really straightforward. It comes from the Kanban board. It comes from the developer community, which actually comes from car manufacturing eventually. Oh, interesting. It's really the concept of stack ranking, which is very easy in theory and very hard in practice. Very few people manage to say... This is actually more important than that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

They're just saying these things are very important, both of them. And when you press them, they say, no, they're equally important. But then they're not ranked. So the real secret is to stack rank and say, you have your two darlings, but if you have to kill one of them, which do you kill first in reverse order? So very easy, but hard to do across the entire company to agree on that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

They're just saying these things are very important, both of them. And when you press them, they say, no, they're equally important. But then they're not ranked. So the real secret is to stack rank and say, you have your two darlings, but if you have to kill one of them, which do you kill first in reverse order? So very easy, but hard to do across the entire company to agree on that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

But once you have it, it gives so much clarity to the org. Because what happens when you say these three things are equally important, but they're not really, they never are, you're going to have to choose, is you just push the decision down the org. And this VP is on the hook for that thing. It's going to start fighting this VP who's on the hook for the other thing.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

But once you have it, it gives so much clarity to the org. Because what happens when you say these three things are equally important, but they're not really, they never are, you're going to have to choose, is you just push the decision down the org. And this VP is on the hook for that thing. It's going to start fighting this VP who's on the hook for the other thing.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And if you as a leader don't bring clarity, you're going to set your org up for fighting. And people who are very nice are going to think that they don't like each other.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And if you as a leader don't bring clarity, you're going to set your org up for fighting. And people who are very nice are going to think that they don't like each other.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So just the stack ranking and being completely transparent across the entire company means that if I come to you and I say, I need you to do this, and you say, yeah, but I'm doing this, look at the board and say, oh, right, we should do this. It's very simple, but very effective.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So just the stack ranking and being completely transparent across the entire company means that if I come to you and I say, I need you to do this, and you say, yeah, but I'm doing this, look at the board and say, oh, right, we should do this. It's very simple, but very effective.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And when you do that, there are a bunch of things you run into, theoretical questions of, okay, once you have this bet support done, do you resource it globally? Do you go through every developer and say, oh, let's just try to get as far as we can? That planning process is hell if everyone is up for grabs. None of my VPs have any estimate of what resources they will have.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

And when you do that, there are a bunch of things you run into, theoretical questions of, okay, once you have this bet support done, do you resource it globally? Do you go through every developer and say, oh, let's just try to get as far as we can? That planning process is hell if everyone is up for grabs. None of my VPs have any estimate of what resources they will have.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

You basically disempower your entire VPs. It's effective in a sense because you do perfect resourcing, but it's incredibly inefficient to do the planning. So then the question is, how do you divide it into blocks? The structure we have is we have a platform organization. They work with GCP and the cloud and the developer tools and so forth and security and all of that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

You basically disempower your entire VPs. It's effective in a sense because you do perfect resourcing, but it's incredibly inefficient to do the planning. So then the question is, how do you divide it into blocks? The structure we have is we have a platform organization. They work with GCP and the cloud and the developer tools and so forth and security and all of that.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

Then we have an experience organization that's responsible for the entire consumer product across mobile, car. desktop, et cetera. Then a personalization organization, because that's so important to us, that does all the AI and the recommendations and balances between books, music, podcast, video, et cetera. And then we have three business verticals, music, podcast, and books.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

Then we have an experience organization that's responsible for the entire consumer product across mobile, car. desktop, et cetera. Then a personalization organization, because that's so important to us, that does all the AI and the recommendations and balances between books, music, podcast, video, et cetera. And then we have three business verticals, music, podcast, and books.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So they have their own resources. And what we do is we start by asking them to resource as far as they can with the resources they have without stealing from each other. And then we get as far as we can because you need to give them predictability for them to be able to plan their own work.

Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
Gustav Söderström - How Spotify Thinks - [Invest Like the Best, EP.424]

So they have their own resources. And what we do is we start by asking them to resource as far as they can with the resources they have without stealing from each other. And then we get as far as we can because you need to give them predictability for them to be able to plan their own work.