Gustav Söderström

You have streaming video on the downlink, a lot of information per second. But the uplink is only a few clicks and swipes. It's a very, very narrow signal. And this is what the previous machine learning age focused on. I think what changes in the age of generative AI is that the uplink can now be English language. It can be almost as rich as the downlink.

You have streaming video on the downlink, a lot of information per second. But the uplink is only a few clicks and swipes. It's a very, very narrow signal. And this is what the previous machine learning age focused on. I think what changes in the age of generative AI is that the uplink can now be English language. It can be almost as rich as the downlink.

And I think that requires all of us consumer companies to, in the limit, totally rethink the product. So if you just do the deduction of what I said, if the full-screen TikTok feed is the epitome of the ML paradigm, the asymmetric downlink-uplink paradigm, what are the chances that that is also the epitome of this generative AI age? I don't think so.

And I think that requires all of us consumer companies to, in the limit, totally rethink the product. So if you just do the deduction of what I said, if the full-screen TikTok feed is the epitome of the ML paradigm, the asymmetric downlink-uplink paradigm, what are the chances that that is also the epitome of this generative AI age? I don't think so.

I think consumer products are going to change fundamentally. I can't predict exactly how. I think they're going to be much more symmetric in terms of information you receive versus information you give. And I think if you fast forward five to 10 years, almost all big consumer products are going to be a conversation to some extent, rather than this service that you use.

I think consumer products are going to change fundamentally. I can't predict exactly how. I think they're going to be much more symmetric in terms of information you receive versus information you give. And I think if you fast forward five to 10 years, almost all big consumer products are going to be a conversation to some extent, rather than this service that you use.

So really the job for us on the product side is to try to figure out what is the next paradigm. And I don't know exactly what it is yet. We're experimenting. And if I did know, I probably wouldn't tell you right now. I'd sit on it for a bit. But this is where we're on the product side.

So really the job for us on the product side is to try to figure out what is the next paradigm. And I don't know exactly what it is yet. We're experimenting. And if I did know, I probably wouldn't tell you right now. I'd sit on it for a bit. But this is where we're on the product side.

And then we can talk a bit about the productivity side as well, where there are the obvious gains in terms of coding productivity, where we are using all the tools that everyone else is doing. But as a big company, there are a few differences from the startups.

And then we can talk a bit about the productivity side as well, where there are the obvious gains in terms of coding productivity, where we are using all the tools that everyone else is doing. But as a big company, there are a few differences from the startups.

Because so far, generative AI and coding has had the most impact when you write net new code, which is a lot of what you do as a startup and a tiny bit of what you do as a big company. Most of it is just refactoring, et cetera. And I think I saw some statistic that In a big company, you basically code one out of every eight hours in a day.

Because so far, generative AI and coding has had the most impact when you write net new code, which is a lot of what you do as a startup and a tiny bit of what you do as a big company. Most of it is just refactoring, et cetera. And I think I saw some statistic that In a big company, you basically code one out of every eight hours in a day.

So not only is coding only one eighth of the time, of that one eighth of the time, that new code is very small. So I actually think the biggest impact is yet to come when it comes to coding. That's two things. These models are getting big enough to understand really large and complex code bases like Spotify's. And we're not quite there where these things can refactor effectively.

So not only is coding only one eighth of the time, of that one eighth of the time, that new code is very small. So I actually think the biggest impact is yet to come when it comes to coding. That's two things. These models are getting big enough to understand really large and complex code bases like Spotify's. And we're not quite there where these things can refactor effectively.

our code base, it doesn't have quite a deep understanding. But it will. And that will be a big shift. The other is doing automatic peer review. We're just on the verge of that working. It's not quite good enough that you can trust it. So a lot of developers didn't wait for their code to be in review and come back. So I think we're seeing that ramp.

our code base, it doesn't have quite a deep understanding. But it will. And that will be a big shift. The other is doing automatic peer review. We're just on the verge of that working. It's not quite good enough that you can trust it. So a lot of developers didn't wait for their code to be in review and come back. So I think we're seeing that ramp.

I think we're going to see it ramp a lot in the next few years. But then the really interesting side is these other seven hours, what a developer does, which is a lot of communication, planning, working with designers, prototyping, meetings. Those things I think will actually have as big or even more impact than the coding itself.

I think we're going to see it ramp a lot in the next few years. But then the really interesting side is these other seven hours, what a developer does, which is a lot of communication, planning, working with designers, prototyping, meetings. Those things I think will actually have as big or even more impact than the coding itself.

I want to start with this downlink, uplink part. What have you learned about consumers' willingness to put a lot of effort into the uplink? It seems like the chat interfaces, the GPTs of the world, we know that people are willing to do a lot of back and forth because it's the native interface. You're going there expecting to write a lot of stuff.

I want to start with this downlink, uplink part. What have you learned about consumers' willingness to put a lot of effort into the uplink? It seems like the chat interfaces, the GPTs of the world, we know that people are willing to do a lot of back and forth because it's the native interface. You're going there expecting to write a lot of stuff.