Hannah Rosen

Well, Ali, thank you for pointing out this line to us. We'll be watching it for the next four years, and thank you for joining me.

Well, Ali, thank you for pointing out this line to us. We'll be watching it for the next four years, and thank you for joining me.

After the break, we explore what's behind the politics. Trump and his allies made the argument often in the campaign that immigrants take away jobs from Americans. It's an argument that on the surface has some intuitive logic, but it actually doesn't work like that. More soon.

After the break, we explore what's behind the politics. Trump and his allies made the argument often in the campaign that immigrants take away jobs from Americans. It's an argument that on the surface has some intuitive logic, but it actually doesn't work like that. More soon.

After the break, we explore what's behind the politics. Trump and his allies made the argument often in the campaign that immigrants take away jobs from Americans. It's an argument that on the surface has some intuitive logic, but it actually doesn't work like that. More soon.

Joining me is Atlantic staff writer Roger Karma, who mainly covers economics. Roger, welcome to the show.

Joining me is Atlantic staff writer Roger Karma, who mainly covers economics. Roger, welcome to the show.

Joining me is Atlantic staff writer Roger Karma, who mainly covers economics. Roger, welcome to the show.

Sure. So an early rift broke out in the Trump administration over H-1B visas, which we've been discussing on this show. With the nativist right saying what people say about all kinds of immigration, these immigrants take jobs away from American workers. So what do we know about the relationship between H-1B visa holders and the American worker?

Sure. So an early rift broke out in the Trump administration over H-1B visas, which we've been discussing on this show. With the nativist right saying what people say about all kinds of immigration, these immigrants take jobs away from American workers. So what do we know about the relationship between H-1B visa holders and the American worker?

Sure. So an early rift broke out in the Trump administration over H-1B visas, which we've been discussing on this show. With the nativist right saying what people say about all kinds of immigration, these immigrants take jobs away from American workers. So what do we know about the relationship between H-1B visa holders and the American worker?

Let's make this a little more concrete. So let's just play out a theoretical company. Here's a theoretical company, hires H-1B visa holders. How does it work? Like innovation is a vague word. How does it actually play out?

Let's make this a little more concrete. So let's just play out a theoretical company. Here's a theoretical company, hires H-1B visa holders. How does it work? Like innovation is a vague word. How does it actually play out?

Let's make this a little more concrete. So let's just play out a theoretical company. Here's a theoretical company, hires H-1B visa holders. How does it work? Like innovation is a vague word. How does it actually play out?

So that's what the research shows. It's fairly definitive until now. And yet even some Democrats have repeated the line, the H-1B visas take away American jobs. For example, Bernie Sanders. What do you make of that?

So that's what the research shows. It's fairly definitive until now. And yet even some Democrats have repeated the line, the H-1B visas take away American jobs. For example, Bernie Sanders. What do you make of that?

So that's what the research shows. It's fairly definitive until now. And yet even some Democrats have repeated the line, the H-1B visas take away American jobs. For example, Bernie Sanders. What do you make of that?

Right, right. Okay, so we've been talking exclusively about the H-1B visas because they came up in the news, but the whole of Trump's promise is not specifically about H-1B visas at all. It's a promise of mass deportation and immigrant labor in general. I know that you've been looking into the research about the relationship between immigrant labor and the American worker. What did you find?

Right, right. Okay, so we've been talking exclusively about the H-1B visas because they came up in the news, but the whole of Trump's promise is not specifically about H-1B visas at all. It's a promise of mass deportation and immigrant labor in general. I know that you've been looking into the research about the relationship between immigrant labor and the American worker. What did you find?

Right, right. Okay, so we've been talking exclusively about the H-1B visas because they came up in the news, but the whole of Trump's promise is not specifically about H-1B visas at all. It's a promise of mass deportation and immigrant labor in general. I know that you've been looking into the research about the relationship between immigrant labor and the American worker. What did you find?