Hannah Rosen

And the layoffs seem to indicate that it's struggling now.

But it did seem to be doing well at one point in his tenure.

So what made that possible?

And then what changed?

I mean, one question is, do you get the sense that the tech crowd thinks that journalism done by humans just doesn't matter that much?

Like it's the opposite of our future.

I mean, let me just try this on you.

Like, is there some alternate way that you can imagine holding government accountable?

I guess I'm asking, is journalism irrelevant?

Like, is there any other way to create an informed citizenry?

Are we clinging to something that just, you know, isn't going to last?

I'm just trying to elicit the best argument for why anyone should care about what you even are describing as this thing that has totally different values than this other thing.

And I understand this other thing to have most of the money and, you know, to have for a long time kind of shaped our culture.

Okay, so is there a path forward for the Washington Post?

Well, Josh, thank you so much for joining me today.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Rosie Hughes and Janae West.

It was edited by Kevin Townsend.

Rob Smirciak engineered and provided original music.

Sam Fentress fact-checked.

Wadina Bade is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.