Hannah Rosen

It's definitely possible, but maybe it hasn't happened in recent history.

So it's not prime in their minds.

The bigger thing, though, is the things that you're describing.

Like me as an average citizen, I look at ICE.

I think, oh, ICE had a mandate to find undocumented immigrants.

What you and I are talking about here is ICE shot an American citizen or ICE going after an American citizen.

That is very, very, very different.

Do you see it as different?

Like, do you see ICE as evolving into a very different role than what it initially started as or what one would think ICE is?

So where this goes, Trump is not going to be president forever.

It does feel right now like the Department of Homeland Security has become much more openly political than we're used to a federal department being.

So do the DHS people worry about what happens when Trump is not in office?

Thank you, Nick.

Thanks for joining us.

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Rosie Hughes and Janae West.

It was edited by Kevin Townsend and fact-checked by Alex Moroño-Porto.

Rob Smirsiak engineered and composed original music.

Claudina Bade is the executive producer of Audio at the Atlantic, and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor.

Listeners, if you enjoy the show, you can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to The Atlantic at theatlantic.com slash listener.

I'm Hannah Rosen.