Ian Landsman

But it's like, ah, who knows if the second product, I've never built a really good second product. I mean, some of these things have been okay, but it's hard to build a second product. So it's like, ah, I got the first product that's done so well. I'm just gonna... Stick with that.

But it's like, ah, who knows if the second product, I've never built a really good second product. I mean, some of these things have been okay, but it's hard to build a second product. So it's like, ah, I got the first product that's done so well. I'm just gonna... Stick with that.

Yeah, it was, oh man, it's so wild to think about now. The world was just incredibly different. Like in 2004, it kind of started, I learned, I wasn't even a programmer, like in college or anything, I learned the program on my own. And then I was like, okay, I want to do a product.

Yeah, it was, oh man, it's so wild to think about now. The world was just incredibly different. Like in 2004, it kind of started, I learned, I wasn't even a programmer, like in college or anything, I learned the program on my own. And then I was like, okay, I want to do a product.

We went through a million product ideas, whatever, finally came on this HelpSpot idea because I used a really awful help desk at work that was mainframe based and didn't accept email and all this stuff. That's like where the world was back then, just to set the stage. Like a lot of big companies just used, had no help desk or a very poor help desk solution. So I was like, okay, I want to do this.

We went through a million product ideas, whatever, finally came on this HelpSpot idea because I used a really awful help desk at work that was mainframe based and didn't accept email and all this stuff. That's like where the world was back then, just to set the stage. Like a lot of big companies just used, had no help desk or a very poor help desk solution. So I was like, okay, I want to do this.

We both, me and my wife agreed. It's a good idea. So like we had just bought this condo, which was a little bit pricey. I was a little nerve wracking. We sold my car. So we had that money, put it in the bank. So we just went down to the one car. My wife kept working.

We both, me and my wife agreed. It's a good idea. So like we had just bought this condo, which was a little bit pricey. I was a little nerve wracking. We sold my car. So we had that money, put it in the bank. So we just went down to the one car. My wife kept working.

And then, yeah, it's like, I would never give anybody this advice now, but it's just such a different world because it's like, there was no choice. There was no real frameworks. There's no Ruby on Rails. There's no Laravel. There's none of these things. And so it's like, okay, I know PHP. I'm just gonna have to write it. I don't even know JavaScript.

And then, yeah, it's like, I would never give anybody this advice now, but it's just such a different world because it's like, there was no choice. There was no real frameworks. There's no Ruby on Rails. There's no Laravel. There's none of these things. And so it's like, okay, I know PHP. I'm just gonna have to write it. I don't even know JavaScript.

So I'm literally sitting there with the JavaScript Bible, which is like a four inch thick book, learning JavaScript while I'm building the app.

So I'm literally sitting there with the JavaScript Bible, which is like a four inch thick book, learning JavaScript while I'm building the app.

And yeah, it's like, you know, I always say like, I could build V1 of Help Spot today, probably in three weeks or something with like, if I just use all the modern tools and everything we have and just do the very basic version that it was in version one, it's like, yeah, you could do it. keep your job, do it on the side, all that stuff. But it just would literally never happen.

And yeah, it's like, you know, I always say like, I could build V1 of Help Spot today, probably in three weeks or something with like, if I just use all the modern tools and everything we have and just do the very basic version that it was in version one, it's like, yeah, you could do it. keep your job, do it on the side, all that stuff. But it just would literally never happen.

I mean, I worked six days a week, like 12 hours a day for six months. And even then it wasn't great. It was just like functional, you know? And so that's just what you had to do back then or it wasn't going to happen. Like those were the, those were the options.

I mean, I worked six days a week, like 12 hours a day for six months. And even then it wasn't great. It was just like functional, you know? And so that's just what you had to do back then or it wasn't going to happen. Like those were the, those were the options.

Even the raising money is something I thought about. But you got to remember, 2004, I mean, the dot-com bust was just a couple years before that. The whole VC world was kind of a mess. They weren't, like, looking to fund individual guys with an idea too much. I'm sure there was some investments, but it wasn't very common. So, yeah. So, we were all – I mean, you were there, right?

Even the raising money is something I thought about. But you got to remember, 2004, I mean, the dot-com bust was just a couple years before that. The whole VC world was kind of a mess. They weren't, like, looking to fund individual guys with an idea too much. I'm sure there was some investments, but it wasn't very common. So, yeah. So, we were all – I mean, you were there, right?

Like, we were all in these bootstrap circles, Joel on Software Forum, and all kind of just – Working together to figure out how do we ship software without really any big funding.

Like, we were all in these bootstrap circles, Joel on Software Forum, and all kind of just – Working together to figure out how do we ship software without really any big funding.