Ian Millhiser

But aren't we also gerrymandering districts at the same time to preserve minority votes?

And haven't we been doing that for decades?

But the problem we have in this country right now is that not everyone sees it that way.

That sounds nice.

It doesn't seem to be happening yet, but who knows?

Maybe things will get so bad that we get there.

In the meantime, what we're left with is this tit for tat.

Texas redraws, California redraws, Missouri redraws, Virginia redraws.

When you see Virginia and California redrawing, do you feel as badly as you feel when you see Texas and Missouri redrawing?

So what does the ACLU see as its role in this race to the bottom?

You'll remember certainly, Sophia, that there was a state, Indiana, that refused to redraw its lines, which is to say, you know, a red state that refused to redraw its lines.

There are still members of both parties that say, you know, we are not going to race to the bottom here.

We want credible democracy for our voters.

Do you think that's a sign that maybe one day

When there's a different composition of the House of Representatives and the Senate in the United States that maybe there's like, I don't know, a new Voting Rights Act to make up for the fact that one of them just got gutted that addresses this race to the bottom and maybe reinshrine some of the values of voting in this democracy.

Sophia Lynn Lakin, eternal optimist at the American Civil Liberties Union.

Earlier in the program, you heard from Ian Millhiser, unrepentant pessimist at Vox.com.

Dustin DeSoto and Kelly Wessinger produced for us today.

Amin al-Assadi, Gabriel Donatov, David Tadishore, and Bridger Dunagan were here to help.

I'm Sean Ramos for them, and this is Today Explained.