Ira Glass

And looking back at that moment, did you really want the truth, or did you want things to be well again and whole again?

And looking back at that moment, did you really want the truth, or did you want things to be well again and whole again?

Your dad was fooling around?

Your dad was fooling around?

Okay, let's imagine this. Your advice just to that 8-year-old, Betsy, who was you?

Okay, let's imagine this. Your advice just to that 8-year-old, Betsy, who was you?

Act three, let no court put us under. Now we have this example of somebody trying to make breakups less horrible than they are. Barry Berkman used to be like any divorce lawyer. He fought for his clients. He tried to get the big settlements. But he came to believe that what he was doing actually was not so good for most of his clients, which, you know, was kind of a big problem.

Act three, let no court put us under. Now we have this example of somebody trying to make breakups less horrible than they are. Barry Berkman used to be like any divorce lawyer. He fought for his clients. He tried to get the big settlements. But he came to believe that what he was doing actually was not so good for most of his clients, which, you know, was kind of a big problem.

Here's the kind of thing he would see. Guy comes in, ready for a divorce.

Here's the kind of thing he would see. Guy comes in, ready for a divorce.

Wait, and is that because the money fight got so bitter? Exactly.

Wait, and is that because the money fight got so bitter? Exactly.

Well, wait, how did that kick in? What was the moment where it went from being just about money to being about the kids too?

Well, wait, how did that kick in? What was the moment where it went from being just about money to being about the kids too?

Did it have to happen? Adversarial-style divorces make up a ton of all divorce proceedings around the country. And Barry felt like most of those cases ended up like this one. Incredibly expensive, taking a huge emotional toll on everybody, damaging children...

Did it have to happen? Adversarial-style divorces make up a ton of all divorce proceedings around the country. And Barry felt like most of those cases ended up like this one. Incredibly expensive, taking a huge emotional toll on everybody, damaging children...

So after 15 years of doing these cases like this, he started looking for a different way, and he found something called collaborative divorce. In collaborative divorce, each spouse gets a lawyer, and then the spouses and the lawyers sit down in a room together to work out some kind of agreement.

So after 15 years of doing these cases like this, he started looking for a different way, and he found something called collaborative divorce. In collaborative divorce, each spouse gets a lawyer, and then the spouses and the lawyers sit down in a room together to work out some kind of agreement.

But under the rules of collaborative divorce, if one of the lawyers thinks that the other side is being intransigent or unreasonable, not only can he not threaten to go to court, If it does go to court, he has to give up the case. He has to give the case to another lawyer to do. So the lawyers have an incentive to work everything out.

But under the rules of collaborative divorce, if one of the lawyers thinks that the other side is being intransigent or unreasonable, not only can he not threaten to go to court, If it does go to court, he has to give up the case. He has to give the case to another lawyer to do. So the lawyers have an incentive to work everything out.