Ira Glass

So, okay, they all sit down together, the spouses and the lawyers. And Barry Brickman says that even though the spouses enter this situation with good intentions of working everything out, the biggest obstacle he has is something very simple.

So, okay, they all sit down together, the spouses and the lawyers. And Barry Brickman says that even though the spouses enter this situation with good intentions of working everything out, the biggest obstacle he has is something very simple.

And so you find yourself very often saying to your own client, no, no, no, no, no. Listen to what they're saying. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And so you find yourself very often saying to your own client, no, no, no, no, no. Listen to what they're saying. Absolutely. Absolutely.

You're saying the most important thing people need to do is simply just listen to each other and try to get along, right? Well, I would say listen to each other.

You're saying the most important thing people need to do is simply just listen to each other and try to get along, right? Well, I would say listen to each other.

Do things get so reasonable that you get people listening to each other well enough that people eventually just get back together? I've had that happen once.

Do things get so reasonable that you get people listening to each other well enough that people eventually just get back together? I've had that happen once.

But this collaborative divorce process makes you actually show up to meetings with your spouse and your lawyers and start talking. And as these two people talked, they started to see each other's side of things. Maybe he hadn't been around enough. Maybe she could have been more supportive.

But this collaborative divorce process makes you actually show up to meetings with your spouse and your lawyers and start talking. And as these two people talked, they started to see each other's side of things. Maybe he hadn't been around enough. Maybe she could have been more supportive.

Usually, of course, the spouses do not get back together. When the process works, Barry Berkman says, at least they end up feeling a little better about each other. To people who say at the end of this process, they appreciate your help and they're glad for the results, but they're still full of pain.

Usually, of course, the spouses do not get back together. When the process works, Barry Berkman says, at least they end up feeling a little better about each other. To people who say at the end of this process, they appreciate your help and they're glad for the results, but they're still full of pain.

Are you saying that at the end of this process, actually just going through the dividing of assets, which is really in the end all you're trying to do, actually makes people's anger dissipate when you do it this way?

Are you saying that at the end of this process, actually just going through the dividing of assets, which is really in the end all you're trying to do, actually makes people's anger dissipate when you do it this way?

Barry Berkman is a lawyer in New York and a member of the New York Association of Collaborative Professionals, which he helped found. Collaborative Divorce, by the way, was invented by a Minneapolis lawyer named Stuart Webb. Back four. Divorce is rough.

Barry Berkman is a lawyer in New York and a member of the New York Association of Collaborative Professionals, which he helped found. Collaborative Divorce, by the way, was invented by a Minneapolis lawyer named Stuart Webb. Back four. Divorce is rough.

We close our show today with this vignette of just how lost you feel when you lose somebody from Meryl Marko, recorded on stage at UnCabaret in Los Angeles.

We close our show today with this vignette of just how lost you feel when you lose somebody from Meryl Marko, recorded on stage at UnCabaret in Los Angeles.

Meryl Marko at Uncabaret in Los Angeles. Meryl's most recent book is a graphic novel, We Saw Scenery. She's also in the upcoming season of the TV show Hacks. Thanks to Greg Miller of Uncabaret.

Meryl Marko at Uncabaret in Los Angeles. Meryl's most recent book is a graphic novel, We Saw Scenery. She's also in the upcoming season of the TV show Hacks. Thanks to Greg Miller of Uncabaret.