Ivan Yates

I think I understand them because I was one of them.

and I empathize with them.

So no, no, no, no, no.

My frustration is that we're coasting along as if everything is fine, but it's actually not a bit fine.

It's going to get worse.

And there's nobody calling that out because they might lose votes for calling it out, or they might have to actually do something about it, which might be unpopular.

Yeah, yeah, no, because I had actually decided, so I got into politics at 21 and I said I will be out of politics at 40 and everyone said, yeah, yeah.

And when at 41 I left, people said, you know, I said, this was, I was always good.

I actually noticed that people who are leaders, John Bruton, Alan Dukes in my own case, even Bertie Ahern, their whole life was consumed by politics.

Politics to me was a vocation, a profession.

It was really good to me, really appreciated my political career.

But I found the media to be much more enjoyable, much more entertaining.

I could say what I liked and do what I liked.

That was the mainstream media you were part of.

Yeah, exactly.

At that stage.

So no, I was given exceptional freedom by Newstalk in particular.

Is it why?

The hard shoulder with Ivan Yates.

Yeah, absolutely.