Jack Clark

And where are you going to get the money from?

Presumably becomes a question quite quickly once it becomes obvious that these things are quite expensive.

Can I just develop Matt's point one more stage?

So from the outside, it feels a little bit as though OpenAI is set up because Elon Musk is scared by a conversation he has with Larry Page and Damon Sassavis, and he thinks they aren't concerned enough about safety.

And he sets it up with Sam Altman.

then the story emerges that Elon Musk is concerned about what Sam Altman's doing.

Then another story emerges that Dario Amodei, your friend, and you, in fact, leave OpenAI because you're concerned about safety.

So now we have a situation in which it feels as though half a dozen of the most famous names in AI have gone through a journey where each one of them is pointing to another.

saying we think you're reckless and not safe enough?

Just to challenge for a second, one of the things we keep hearing is safety.

I mean, certainly it seems as though that's what is driving Elon Musk in 2016.

He's worried that Amazon's system's not safe enough.

And then there seems to be an anxiety that open AI isn't safe enough.

So somewhere here, and this is one of the things that I noticed when I'm talking to the founders of these companies and I'm saying, why are you taking these risks or why are you traveling at this speed?

Often the answer is, well, I have to get there before this other person.

And the other person was often one of their friends 10 years ago.

And I've got to get there before them because they're very dangerous.

And unless my models, they're ahead of them, we're going to be in trouble.

And then it moves on to, and anyway, the US has got to get ahead of China because they're also very dangerous.

So there's a sense that we're in a kind of America's cut race where we're speeding along and the storms coming in and the winds and the sails and everyone's saying, well, I can fix the safety, but I can't fix it in a way that's going to slow up my ship because I've got to get there ahead of them.