Jacob Saffle

Yeah.

I don't know how he got the nickname mouse.

I actually didn't ask, but I should have, but you know, he's quite a big guy.

It's an ironic name.

Yeah.

Well, what were his, does he still, um, he doesn't seem to have many reservations about, about how things have kind of progressed and opened up or does he feel like, no, what I thought then I think now where I was really, he from, you know, obviously we heard him on the podcast, but from, from man to man, what does he think?

Yeah, I mean, he, so actually it's good.

I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, we do go over the Mary Bartram case, which is something that gets overlooked a lot.

But I mean.

there's so much to this case that, I mean, and you did a really great job of organizing that, you know, all right, let's,

let's talk about the environment and the situation here.

Very top level.

Okay, now let's talk about some of these key locations because those locations come into play time and time and time and time and time again.

And they evolve out, but then they always seem to come back.

You know, you'll hear these things that kind of bring you out here.

Okay, but then it ties us back here.

So I think that was an excellent step by you to go, okay, now let me just take you to these places and then we'll dig into the X's and O's, which is where I think episode three takes us.

Let's go, okay.

Now that you kind of get the idea of the environment we're dealing with, let's talk about how the court sees it and how this thing played out.

Right.