Jake Humphrey

And that actually changes the game because I think once fear...

is normal.

Like it stops being a red flag.

It stops being evidence that you're not ready.

It becomes part of your process.

And I think, um,

the people you admire didn't get there without fear.

They got there alongside fear, I think is the thing that I've learned.

And do you remember Johanna Konta when she spoke about your resistance being a 10?

And if your resistance, this is the former number one female British tennis player.

If your resistance to life is a 10, even if life's challenges are a two, then the outcome is a 20.

But if your resistance is a zero, the challenge of life can be a 10, but 10 times zero is a zero.

So I think that she was absolutely onto something really clever here when we spoke about pressure.

You know, the interesting thing about that line from Dan there is like he learned this quite late in his career, Damien.

And I sort of, I suppose there's two things.

Number one, how good could he have been if he'd have known about it earlier?

I mean, does that matter?

It's a nonsense question probably because he was the best of the best.

But I do wonder whether it's a reminder to us that even someone like Dan Carter is still looking for answers to the fear question at the very top of his game, having been a successful All Black for years.

So do you think this transcends sport?