Jake White

I think also just trying to find out, you know, from a refereeing point of view,

just where the game's going.

Because I think the referees have got a big role to play in the way the game's moving forward anyway.

Look, I've had this debate with a couple of coaches as well, Bernard, and we've debated it.

I mean, I generally think that the team that defends is getting a lot of love.

I know coaches are saying it's the other way around, but if you think about it, they took away scoring tries against the goalposts the other day.

I mean, how many times have we scored tries against the goalposts?

I mean, now taking three or four more a year away, that's just one stupid example.

But if you think about it, you kick the ball out, you go into touch, I throw it in straight, I lift correctly, I set up a mall, and the first thing the ref says is, use it.

It's basically his way of making sure I give the ball back to the opposition.

You knock the ball on, I get a scrum, I hold it at the eighth man's feet, he says, use it.

Bottom line is, again, let's play.

You're not allowed to have the ball, even though you guys have made the mistake.

And then the last one is multi-phase.

You can keep it for 10, 15 phases, and if it gets stuck in the middle of the rack, he goes, use it, use it.

And you've got five seconds.

I remember in the final round,

There was a big call made where one of the referees blew and gave a turnover.

That's a 22-metre entry for not giving the ball back to the opposition.

So I suppose what I'm saying to you is that everything in rugby is gone in cycles.