James Lyons

But I think what you're seeing is a kind of howl of frustration, actually, from Tony Blair.

And I think he probably feels that

Private messages haven't got through.

His institute have been talking about doing away with the kind of net zero agenda, for example, for a very long time.

They've produced previous reports around that.

And obviously, that has not thus far gained traction inside the government.

We can come on to the merits or otherwise of some sort of battle of ideas in the Labour Party while it's in government in a minute.

Personally, I think it would be a disaster.

But one of the really interesting things here is we've kind of seen a kind of almost transcendent moment for Tony Blair here.

He got dangerously close to saying the quiet bit out loud in one of his interviews this week.

where he said, I don't care, and you could hear the words coming, whether it's the Tories or Labour who enact this stuff, right?

Sorry, with who?

With the public or with... Within the party.

Oh, right.

The sort of travelling Wilburys who popped up over the last few weeks.

It's fairly high.

Some of the old stages, although I have to say, you know, Tony Blair's, I think, almost twice the age that Tom Pesce was when they got together.

You know, I...

Clearly, one of the problems for the government is there's a huge amount of frustration within its own ranks, right?

People within cabinet, ministers, MPs, and party activists.