James Pogue

If not purely racial, it's racial tinged with this idea that he is the kind of end stage representative of this meritocracy that they hate, of this thing that elevated this worldview that was so lockstep, so overwhelming, that you almost couldn't not speak to it. And you see Barack Obama

If not purely racial, it's racial tinged with this idea that he is the kind of end stage representative of this meritocracy that they hate, of this thing that elevated this worldview that was so lockstep, so overwhelming, that you almost couldn't not speak to it. And you see Barack Obama

wrestling with this, when he's recommending Patrick Deneen's books, and when he's talking about how, like, hey, you know, he says it very delicately, but he says changes have caused people to get very upset. Changes are threatening the liberal order that has existed for hundreds of years. Even he wrestles with these questions.

wrestling with this, when he's recommending Patrick Deneen's books, and when he's talking about how, like, hey, you know, he says it very delicately, but he says changes have caused people to get very upset. Changes are threatening the liberal order that has existed for hundreds of years. Even he wrestles with these questions.

Yeah, I mean, correct me if you think this phrasing is too simplistic. But to me, the way I look at it is essentially that Obama was the sort of end stage of the end of history. And there was a promise with Obama, going to your point, completely independent of actual stuff Obama did, right? Where it was the achievement of, you know, whatever worldview we want to describe here.

Yeah, I mean, correct me if you think this phrasing is too simplistic. But to me, the way I look at it is essentially that Obama was the sort of end stage of the end of history. And there was a promise with Obama, going to your point, completely independent of actual stuff Obama did, right? Where it was the achievement of, you know, whatever worldview we want to describe here.

But a worldview that essentially we, a technocratic society, have figured all this stuff out. And that we're going to build a more interconnected, diverse society forever now. And, you know, everything was going to get solved by this kind of Thomas Friedman idea of...

But a worldview that essentially we, a technocratic society, have figured all this stuff out. And that we're going to build a more interconnected, diverse society forever now. And, you know, everything was going to get solved by this kind of Thomas Friedman idea of...

You know, now there will be a McDonald's in every country and there'll be no incentive to fight and we're all going to be, the world will be flat, right? And what Donald Trump, when he took office in 2017, represented above everything else was just the end of the end of history. And it really shocked people. Like, if you look at what Donald Trump did in 2017, it's...

You know, now there will be a McDonald's in every country and there'll be no incentive to fight and we're all going to be, the world will be flat, right? And what Donald Trump, when he took office in 2017, represented above everything else was just the end of the end of history. And it really shocked people. Like, if you look at what Donald Trump did in 2017, it's...

I mean, am I too harsh in saying that it was virtually negligible? With the exception of a tax cut that worked entirely against the stated goals of his entire project. But it opened for the people around him this sense of a coming dawn, that suddenly all of these things that they really wanted to get back into the conversation were legal to say again, right? Like, wait, why is the future female?

I mean, am I too harsh in saying that it was virtually negligible? With the exception of a tax cut that worked entirely against the stated goals of his entire project. But it opened for the people around him this sense of a coming dawn, that suddenly all of these things that they really wanted to get back into the conversation were legal to say again, right? Like, wait, why is the future female?

Like, what was good about that? Like, you know, all of a sudden you started hearing at, you know, cocktail bars, people who are working in government going like, wait, are you sure women are equipped to run the country and stuff? And, you know, under the era of Obama, I don't think that sources of mine would have dared even say that at a bar with a recorder off.

Like, what was good about that? Like, you know, all of a sudden you started hearing at, you know, cocktail bars, people who are working in government going like, wait, are you sure women are equipped to run the country and stuff? And, you know, under the era of Obama, I don't think that sources of mine would have dared even say that at a bar with a recorder off.

Like, it was too far outside of the shared worldview that was shaping the entire Western project.

Like, it was too far outside of the shared worldview that was shaping the entire Western project.

Yeah. And as you're asking this question, I'm getting a sense that I know where this may go next. And, okay, so yes, I thought... That picking J.D., first of all, it represented a desire on Trump's part to build a legacy. Because, I mean, challenge me here if I'm wrong, but there probably isn't a comparable figure who could...

Yeah. And as you're asking this question, I'm getting a sense that I know where this may go next. And, okay, so yes, I thought... That picking J.D., first of all, it represented a desire on Trump's part to build a legacy. Because, I mean, challenge me here if I'm wrong, but there probably isn't a comparable figure who could...

Well, that depends if Donald Trump agrees, right, on what the MAGA project is.

Well, that depends if Donald Trump agrees, right, on what the MAGA project is.