James Pogue

You know, it's funny because I think a lot of people in this world would look at liberals as sort of like pearl clutching and being completely unreasonable because their point would be that just happens to be the Americans who built the nation. If you'd want France to suddenly be a country where it doesn't matter at all that you had French heritage going back to the Gauls, then that's fine.

You know, it's funny because I think a lot of people in this world would look at liberals as sort of like pearl clutching and being completely unreasonable because their point would be that just happens to be the Americans who built the nation. If you'd want France to suddenly be a country where it doesn't matter at all that you had French heritage going back to the Gauls, then that's fine.

But then you just don't care about countries at all. And then you and me can sit here and go, well, downstream of that, you're basically saying that all these people can never be real Americans. This is fundamentally particularly on this continent in this nation built on ideas and things like that. This is fundamentally anti-American.

But then you just don't care about countries at all. And then you and me can sit here and go, well, downstream of that, you're basically saying that all these people can never be real Americans. This is fundamentally particularly on this continent in this nation built on ideas and things like that. This is fundamentally anti-American.

And so you probably saw, I quoted Jeremy Carl, who I know quite well, who worked in the Trump administration and who wrote a book about, you know, so anti-white racism. And Carl will say that, In the pages of the New York Times, America is not an idea. America is a people.

And so you probably saw, I quoted Jeremy Carl, who I know quite well, who worked in the Trump administration and who wrote a book about, you know, so anti-white racism. And Carl will say that, In the pages of the New York Times, America is not an idea. America is a people.

You know, this is like a very... I think back about certain details heading into the 2008 election, and I think about how things might have gone differently, and I'm actually not sure.

You know, this is like a very... I think back about certain details heading into the 2008 election, and I think about how things might have gone differently, and I'm actually not sure.

And you could hear in Appalachia, as I did, somewhat to my shock, you could hear Dr. Ralph Stanley, one of the great bluegrass luminaries, doing radio spots in Appalachia saying, Barack Obama is going to help keep our kids able to stay home.

And you could hear in Appalachia, as I did, somewhat to my shock, you could hear Dr. Ralph Stanley, one of the great bluegrass luminaries, doing radio spots in Appalachia saying, Barack Obama is going to help keep our kids able to stay home.

And so actually at that time, and I'm not saying this was shared by everyone, but there was a feeling there that Barack Obama actually cared about some of this sort of reindustrialization stuff that he cared about. He had a vision of some kind of step back from absolute end of days. Financialization and capitalism are just going to shape our lives and we have no ability to check these forces.

And so actually at that time, and I'm not saying this was shared by everyone, but there was a feeling there that Barack Obama actually cared about some of this sort of reindustrialization stuff that he cared about. He had a vision of some kind of step back from absolute end of days. Financialization and capitalism are just going to shape our lives and we have no ability to check these forces.

I put this to J.D. once. He was almost the localist candidate in the 2008 race. And I think it was a really, really powerful part of how he was able to win some of these states. So the question that then comes due and that, like, speaks to what you're asking about is... Why was that sense lost?

I put this to J.D. once. He was almost the localist candidate in the 2008 race. And I think it was a really, really powerful part of how he was able to win some of these states. So the question that then comes due and that, like, speaks to what you're asking about is... Why was that sense lost?

And I think there's some way to look at what happened with Obama and think, oh, so he actually didn't do all the labor stuff. He actually didn't do all the populism stuff that he promised, or at least that perhaps people thought with some fantasy in their brain that he was going to be able to do. He did not reorient things towards this dispossessed working class that...

And I think there's some way to look at what happened with Obama and think, oh, so he actually didn't do all the labor stuff. He actually didn't do all the populism stuff that he promised, or at least that perhaps people thought with some fantasy in their brain that he was going to be able to do. He did not reorient things towards this dispossessed working class that...

he actually was able to speak to pretty compellingly. And so the sort of like, if you're trying to absolve Bannon of why he would now be where he was, that would be the argument. I think in a much darker way, what you're saying is completely true. And I think they tapped into those forces that you're talking about. Donald Trump tapped into that force of like, there's something really off here.

he actually was able to speak to pretty compellingly. And so the sort of like, if you're trying to absolve Bannon of why he would now be where he was, that would be the argument. I think in a much darker way, what you're saying is completely true. And I think they tapped into those forces that you're talking about. Donald Trump tapped into that force of like, there's something really off here.

And there's this idea on the new right that, that somehow like it wasn't racist or whatever to talk about the birtherism stuff that that was just, Oh, that was such a liberal media of reaction. Like, and you're like, come on, like this is ridiculous. And so the backlash now is, is, I think, pretty purely racial.

And there's this idea on the new right that, that somehow like it wasn't racist or whatever to talk about the birtherism stuff that that was just, Oh, that was such a liberal media of reaction. Like, and you're like, come on, like this is ridiculous. And so the backlash now is, is, I think, pretty purely racial.