James Pogue

But, you know, essentially traditionalism is an attempt to formalize a lot of what we're talking about, that there are these kind of like fundamental, honestly, like elites, that there are fundamental differences between peoples. You know, Suivola very much was one of these people that thought that whites were above other races and things like that. And, you know...

But, you know, essentially traditionalism is an attempt to formalize a lot of what we're talking about, that there are these kind of like fundamental, honestly, like elites, that there are fundamental differences between peoples. You know, Suivola very much was one of these people that thought that whites were above other races and things like that. And, you know...

We can sort of speculate and talk for days and days and days about whether or not Bannon believes that racial element of the traditionalist thing. I have talked to him a lot and he's very careful about saying, hey, my populist nationalism is pro-American citizen. I don't care what color of an American citizen you are, but I am pro-American citizen. And so-

We can sort of speculate and talk for days and days and days about whether or not Bannon believes that racial element of the traditionalist thing. I have talked to him a lot and he's very careful about saying, hey, my populist nationalism is pro-American citizen. I don't care what color of an American citizen you are, but I am pro-American citizen. And so-

I think that's very true, but you have to kind of incorporate another element to it. So to go back to someone like George Bush or Ronald Reagan, I agree, they're nationalists. And at the end of the day, these kind of spiritual conceptions that existed latently in our culture long through the modern era of, you know, America is a shining city on a hill. America is a special project.

I think that's very true, but you have to kind of incorporate another element to it. So to go back to someone like George Bush or Ronald Reagan, I agree, they're nationalists. And at the end of the day, these kind of spiritual conceptions that existed latently in our culture long through the modern era of, you know, America is a shining city on a hill. America is a special project.

America is even, you know, on the right, like some form of Zion concept. put here by God to lead people into a better future and things like this. These are, in their own ways, spiritual views, right? And they retained a great deal of force on the right for a long time.

America is even, you know, on the right, like some form of Zion concept. put here by God to lead people into a better future and things like this. These are, in their own ways, spiritual views, right? And they retained a great deal of force on the right for a long time.

But what a Steve Bannon would say is that actually the politics, the superstructures of global politics made being a casual nationalist increasingly impossible. And so the forces of globalization, the worldview that, hey, like, it doesn't matter... How many people come in? What Bannon does is basically say, like, look, this is the structure. This is how it works.

But what a Steve Bannon would say is that actually the politics, the superstructures of global politics made being a casual nationalist increasingly impossible. And so the forces of globalization, the worldview that, hey, like, it doesn't matter... How many people come in? What Bannon does is basically say, like, look, this is the structure. This is how it works.

This is how the dollar system works. This is how our system of overseas bases works. This is how global trade flows work. And this is why you can't have that nationalism anymore. And that's why we have to destroy it. So the Bannon project actually very much is...

This is how the dollar system works. This is how our system of overseas bases works. This is how global trade flows work. And this is why you can't have that nationalism anymore. And that's why we have to destroy it. So the Bannon project actually very much is...

a kind of policy-based attempt to explain to people in Kentucky why he feels like they have been screwed and why he feels like their leaders no longer allow them to say, it'd be great to have my kids buried in the same cemetery as my grandparents. Because suddenly... I think this is true. Suddenly, that did start to sound like a weird thing to say.

a kind of policy-based attempt to explain to people in Kentucky why he feels like they have been screwed and why he feels like their leaders no longer allow them to say, it'd be great to have my kids buried in the same cemetery as my grandparents. Because suddenly... I think this is true. Suddenly, that did start to sound like a weird thing to say.

And for most of American history, that would have just been normal. Sure, yeah, that's great. Like, you want your whole family buried in the same cemetery. Like, we all want to stick together. We're all one little group of family.

And for most of American history, that would have just been normal. Sure, yeah, that's great. Like, you want your whole family buried in the same cemetery. Like, we all want to stick together. We're all one little group of family.

Well, so, yeah. I mean, I, yet again, couldn't agree more with that. That, you know, the term that people will use is heritage Americans. And, you know, I sometimes get confused because there's a little, like, weirdness in how they use that. Like, are Italians who came in the Ellis Island era heritage Americans? And candidly, like, most people who are using this phrase would not say that's true.

Well, so, yeah. I mean, I, yet again, couldn't agree more with that. That, you know, the term that people will use is heritage Americans. And, you know, I sometimes get confused because there's a little, like, weirdness in how they use that. Like, are Italians who came in the Ellis Island era heritage Americans? And candidly, like, most people who are using this phrase would not say that's true.

Right. There is something about the heritage American that comes from those original tribes of largely Scots-Irish or English people settling the Trans-Appalachian or the Northeast. And an America that derives its culture from the song, story, and religion of those people that is being diluted. And...

Right. There is something about the heritage American that comes from those original tribes of largely Scots-Irish or English people settling the Trans-Appalachian or the Northeast. And an America that derives its culture from the song, story, and religion of those people that is being diluted. And...