James Pogue

Well, true. But so with J.D., like what you saw, I think, was the first bit of the coalition politics forming because Trump had already figured out he's going to bring the Doug Bergens and the Nikki Haley's along. They were going to bend the knee. They bent the knee in 2016. This wasn't hard to him.

Well, true. But so with J.D., like what you saw, I think, was the first bit of the coalition politics forming because Trump had already figured out he's going to bring the Doug Bergens and the Nikki Haley's along. They were going to bend the knee. They bent the knee in 2016. This wasn't hard to him.

The question was, are all these guys with crazy names on Twitter who are really driving the energy of this thing, are they going to stay with him? Are they going to ride this carnival all the way to election and keep this true – You know, we forget this in liberal society sometimes, but like you win politics by tapping into animal forces sometimes.

The question was, are all these guys with crazy names on Twitter who are really driving the energy of this thing, are they going to stay with him? Are they going to ride this carnival all the way to election and keep this true – You know, we forget this in liberal society sometimes, but like you win politics by tapping into animal forces sometimes.

And Barack Obama did that as much as anybody, right? There was something spiritual about watching Obama in later stages of even 2012, I felt. And so I think J.D. was a way to tap into that. I, after J.D. got the nomination... I had to take a step back because I had seen him right before, just privately. And then I had sort of like this fear of becoming like J.D. Vance's amanuensis as he rises.

And Barack Obama did that as much as anybody, right? There was something spiritual about watching Obama in later stages of even 2012, I felt. And so I think J.D. was a way to tap into that. I, after J.D. got the nomination... I had to take a step back because I had seen him right before, just privately. And then I had sort of like this fear of becoming like J.D. Vance's amanuensis as he rises.

And so I didn't watch the RNC. I actually just couldn't watch him accept the nomination because it was like just a weird, I felt too strange and I felt sort of too wrapped up in it. And I thought it would be better for my reporting to just watch football replays.

And so I didn't watch the RNC. I actually just couldn't watch him accept the nomination because it was like just a weird, I felt too strange and I felt sort of too wrapped up in it. And I thought it would be better for my reporting to just watch football replays.

I thought, and now I may turn out to be proved wrong, I thought that what this meant was that that was going to mean JD's wing was ascendant. And that would be... Not to make it far too simple here, because I think J.D. does bridge the worlds a little bit, but that would be the Tucker side of things. That would be the Bannon side of things. That would be the real sort of like hardcore MAGA thing.

I thought, and now I may turn out to be proved wrong, I thought that what this meant was that that was going to mean JD's wing was ascendant. And that would be... Not to make it far too simple here, because I think J.D. does bridge the worlds a little bit, but that would be the Tucker side of things. That would be the Bannon side of things. That would be the real sort of like hardcore MAGA thing.

That would be his friends who talk about heritage Americans and this kind of thing. I assumed that that was a signal from Donald Trump saying, this is the force that is going to get me into the presidency, and these are the people I'm going to listen to.

That would be his friends who talk about heritage Americans and this kind of thing. I assumed that that was a signal from Donald Trump saying, this is the force that is going to get me into the presidency, and these are the people I'm going to listen to.

What transpired and what we're seeing now was this kind of, as Mark Anderson calls it, I always quote this because I don't know how else to describe it, but this preference cascade amongst people who are much more on the fringes of this kind of thing. Even people like Sam Altman, who I think not long ago was just pretty clearly a liberal, even if he's exposed to all of this stuff in his own way.

What transpired and what we're seeing now was this kind of, as Mark Anderson calls it, I always quote this because I don't know how else to describe it, but this preference cascade amongst people who are much more on the fringes of this kind of thing. Even people like Sam Altman, who I think not long ago was just pretty clearly a liberal, even if he's exposed to all of this stuff in his own way.

You had this preference cascade of people coming and saying, you know what? We don't really share all that stuff with those guys, the real nationalist populace, but we're not repulsed by it. And so the natural alliance becomes, if you're Donald Trump, The really, really rich guys who you actually just completely depend on for your political dollars and for your staffing decisions?

You had this preference cascade of people coming and saying, you know what? We don't really share all that stuff with those guys, the real nationalist populace, but we're not repulsed by it. And so the natural alliance becomes, if you're Donald Trump, The really, really rich guys who you actually just completely depend on for your political dollars and for your staffing decisions?

Okay, wait, maybe he's going to shift to this other thing. And so I didn't really anticipate that, actually.

Okay, wait, maybe he's going to shift to this other thing. And so I didn't really anticipate that, actually.

I would put some nuance to the idea that Musk represents a genuinely sort of like opposite pole in so much as there are poles to this thing. For the simple reason that Musk is so visibly Twitter-brained and so responsive to the whims of, shall we call it the mob on Twitter, that...

I would put some nuance to the idea that Musk represents a genuinely sort of like opposite pole in so much as there are poles to this thing. For the simple reason that Musk is so visibly Twitter-brained and so responsive to the whims of, shall we call it the mob on Twitter, that...