Jason Holland

So you don't have to work too hard on it, and just the rugby becomes the full focus when you're together.

Yeah, and that's right.

And I don't know what it's like now.

Maybe I assume there's been big changes there, and I know –

I know with Clayton as an example at Munster, he's great at that stuff.

I'm sure he's changed things a bit there.

But in those times, it was quite different coming back here.

And then going up to the Canes and having to grow that mindset around, and it all comes back to how you get the best out of the people, isn't it, again?

And just understanding the people a bit more.

Oh, probably from Bodie.

Chandles and undies.

Yeah, no, Bodie, it was just a chat, I think, with Bodie.

Ah, shoulder tapped with that one.

Clarkie actually, ironically, Clarkie was leaving.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Clarkie went to London Irish, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

So 2015 was his year and I came in to replace Clarkie.

Yeah.

So it's funny how it swings and roundabouts and now me and Clarkie worked together for a year with the Canes, so...