Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Waterlad podcast presented to you by Betcha. And here's a little sample of what's about to come in this episode.
Classic story of getting up in the middle of the night with the old man watching footy, you know, watching the games in South Africa and watching the All Blacks. And so it's always been ingrained in me. The old man was big in the footy and took a while for me to really mature and understand that you had to work pretty hard to play footy.
And it wasn't until I went to Munster that I reckon I actually I started to understand I can be a professional footy player here and actually work hard and lift a bit in the gym and sort of regret that I didn't figure that out a few years earlier.
Chapter 2: How did Jason Holland's early experiences shape his rugby career?
But then got a call about nine months later to go back and coach. I definitely don't miss the physical side of the game these days, but I couldn't be out of it. I couldn't be out of footy. I can't sit down and watch footy without either thinking about what I'm seeing Yeah, yeah. And how teams are trying to play. Yeah, that's what happens. Mate, what an opportunity. It was awesome, mate.
I think at times over the last couple of years I've forgotten what I'm good at. Yeah, as I say, I've thought about making sure I continue to coach with a smile on my face.
Well, lad, when it comes to my all-time favorite coaches, today's guest is right up there with the best. But before he was a world-class coach, he was a world-class player, as he showed for Manawatu, Taranaki, and in over 100 games for Munster. Post-playing, Munster did everything they could to keep the incredible rugby brain on their books.
So he moved into an assistant coach role there for four years before returning home to where he coached Canterbury and the Hurricanes, winning titles with both. The last few years have been more than eventful, becoming the All Blacks assistant coach before rejoining the Hurricanes and soon to take up a new opportunity to head coach the Blues. With all of that, he's more than just a great coach.
Chapter 3: What lessons did Jason learn from his time at Munster?
He's a champion human and running and in the running for father and husband of the year yet again. It is, of course, the great Jason Holland. Welcome, mate.
Thanks, mate. My daughters and my wife would be interested in that. I'm sure they'd agree.
But it has been a very eventful 24 sort of months for you, riding the coaching rollercoaster that coaches go through. How's it been on the other side of the fence?
Yeah, she's a rollercoaster, right? Yeah, it's interesting. It's been a great experience the last couple of years with the ABs. Learned a lot of things around myself, I suppose, and sort of confirmed a few things as to what it looks like when I'm at my best and when probably I'm not. And I think at times over the last couple of years, I've forgotten what I'm good at.
Maybe not forgotten, but I haven't quite nailed the bits that I'm good at when I'm nice and relaxed and coaching exactly the way I want to coach. And that's been something that I've taken on board and learned and thinking massively about myself, but also the other coaches I'm going to be coaching with, um, through the remainder of this year and going forward. So, um, yeah, it's been good.
It's been made. It's a massive privilege, obviously, to coach the All Blacks, um, coached it with the, you know, the other coaches are great men and, and, um, you know, enjoyed times, you know, enjoyed a lot of the time with the, with the ABs, but, um, Yeah, time moves on. Coaches, we know what we get into, don't we, when we're coaching.
You have your thick skin and you just make sure you're at your best as much as you possibly can and you keep learning. So, yeah, that's where I'm at.
Yeah, it's quite a cool reflection hearing you talk around when you're coaching at your best. I've obviously seen you coaching at your best for a couple of years there at the Hurricanes. You were fantastic. on fire every week, but obviously you mentioned the pressure or the stress of it and sort of distracting you from what you're good at.
Does that sort of come with the role of the all-black job and just the whole pressure of it all?
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Chapter 4: How did coaching the Hurricanes lead to a Super Rugby title?
Obviously, it's always fun when you're winning. Yeah. Yeah, the test is, the real test is coming over the next eight or 10 weeks, isn't it?
Yeah. Well, you've got that good core group that's sort of been building for maybe the last four or five years where this group's just come together. Obviously, Geordie's back from his
sabbatical and you've got all things sort of seem to be aligning this year for you so obviously pretty confident um going forward into the big games yeah look it's you watch players mature as you as you get older and watch the boys come through from probably when you were there those guys were coming through as 19 20 year olds yeah um and learning along the way always great players but learning the maturity of what it's like to help your team out out and what it's like to
you know, make a decision in a big moment. And Canes are lucky in that space that we've got the majority of our squads come through in that late to mid-20s, and they're all in a good space. But in saying that, yeah, we've got, as I say, there's eight weeks left, or eight weeks of round robins left, and that's where the test will come for these boys.
But it's enjoyable working with the group that are nice and mature and understand they want to help everyone else in the group, not just themselves.
It's a real good dynamic around the talent, the depth, and obviously, like you say, just the leadership, I guess, is the one thing that's really grown over the last few years of being able to work things out on the field instead of having to rely from a message down up top from you.
Yeah, and it'd be interesting to look at the teams that have won, obviously, Crusaders for a whole lot of years and the Blues over last year as to what the makeup of their team in that space is. You know, what age are guys? Where's the leadership? And the little sprinkles of young talent that have come through to give them a bit of a razzle or a bit of pop, you know. So if you look at
The Crusaders over the last few years and the Blues, they're in that space, I reckon, around that age bracket of players. So it's a good food for thought.
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Chapter 5: What challenges did Jason face while coaching the All Blacks?
Yeah.
It's game IQ as well, isn't it? You can be older, but if you don't understand the game, it's the guys who really understand the game. And I think you guys obviously have some of those guys out there at the moment who seem to be working things out.
Yeah, that's right. And the challenge is to, you know, the Canes have always had a, you know, philosophy around playing, around making sure we play and we entertain. That doesn't always win you championships. So the balance there, the boys are starting to understand. So, yeah, no, we're in a good spot.
But, yeah, under no illusions that we're, you know, it's only early in the season and we've got some pretty big games coming up with some New Zealand teams.
yeah and obviously in the news this week was that you uh next year off to the blues um head coach roll up the exciting opportunity for you yeah it's been it is a real exciting opportunity um had some you know great catch-ups with people up there um there's some as i say a great group of senior players up there um and the opportunity with all the talent up there to to try and um to
build on what's been happening over the last couple of years. Obviously won a championship a couple of years ago, building really nicely, developed the style of play where they can be nice and brutal and physical, which won a championship.
And I'm looking forward to getting up and building on that and seeing how I can, you know, add to that really in the way they play and, you know, looking forward to getting into the community up there.
How do you see it working in terms of roles? Will you still have your fingers on the pulse with the attack? Or once you become a head coach, you feel like you just become too busy?
Yeah, that was one of the main discussions really early. We started chatting about it, that vital to me that I actually have an on-field role. So yeah, we'll figure that out exactly how that works. But yeah, I'm really excited about what I'm doing at the moment in the attack space with the Canes. Yeah.
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Chapter 6: What insights does Jason have about the pressure of coaching at the top level?
Yeah. I still enjoy the cricket. I wonder if I made the right decision. I wouldn't mind playing in some of these T20s, coaching some of these T20 teams around the world.
What sort of batsman were you?
Oh, just square leg, cow corner. Oh, yeah. Aggressive. Yeah, just go. Just open up. It was either sort of 35 off 20 balls or out two or three balls.
And just sledging in behind the stumps.
I took the opportunity to see a young fellow who nicked one to me. Have you ever spoken to Rangi about that? No, I think we did have a little bit of banter, but I'm not sure he remembers. He would have been...
He's deleted it from his memory.
Yeah, I'd say so. He's probably trying to say he didn't hit it, but he definitely hit it.
And what about the footy? When did you start knowing that you're going to be quite good at footy?
Yeah, I was hopeless as a young fella, eh? It took a while for me to really mature and understand that you had to work pretty hard to play footy. Yeah. At varsity, I was hopeless. And, like, I played for Manawatu, and I loved the game. Didn't train overly hard, you know? Yeah.
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Chapter 7: What motivated Jason to transition from coaching the All Blacks to the Blues?
We talked and we lived the game a lot of the time and that's always sort of been maybe my thought process, not my body, got me a step ahead sometimes. Yeah. Seeing things a bit quicker and making good decisions and being able to throw that pass versus there's a bit of space in front of you and I probably can't take that whole.
So you were like the classic athlete who's at 35 years old, but you were 22 or whatever.
That's a bit harsh, but yeah, similar. Your mind's ahead of your body.
That's right.
A little bit with you in the last case. Yeah, definitely.
I can relate to that.
Yeah.
And what about moving back up to the NACI? What was that like for you? Obviously, it would have been sort of the team that you grew up wanting to play for.
Yeah, because I left school and went straight to Parmy. And then that was when the Central Vikings came in, actually. I moved back to the NACI then because I think Frank Oliver brought in Stephen Bishop, I think. Oh, yeah. And so I went back to the NACI for two years then. And that was good. It was good.
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Chapter 8: How does Jason Holland reflect on his coaching philosophy?
No, we're just in the warehouse there doing some pretty mundane stuff. Yeah, we just got through the day to get the training really. And then there was two years worth before I got the opportunity to go to Munster.
What did you study at Manute?
Now you said there was questions that you probably shouldn't answer. That was one of them. I think I did planning when I first went down there. And my first year was probably my most immature year. I went down there and didn't work at all and just played footy. And they ended up doing a bit of accountancy in the end. Oh yeah.
So, um, yeah, I'll probably have to go back to varsity for another couple of years to finish that. So, um, yeah, I doubt I'll get there. Did you enjoy it on that? Um, yeah, mate, I actually, when I had a year in the middle, when I came back from Munster, when I actually came home and said, man, I'll go to varsity when I finished playing, I'll go back and finish my degree.
So I went up to Varsity and couldn't believe how easy it was when you actually went up there. But then got the call to go back a year later. So I was enjoying that year. I went back. I'd figured life out a little bit more, but no, it was, yeah, one day maybe I'll finish it off. But yeah.
You're a coach for life, surely.
I hope so.
And what about, like, the Taranaki legends up there, obviously playing with some of those in front of Yarrow Stadium. Must have been some good memories.
Yeah. As a young fella, I remember watching, you know, Colt Crowley and his brother at halfback. And, you know, there was all the Allison boys and names that people won't know, like me and Marshall, guys that actually Geordie's father-in-law to be. Oh, yeah. So all those guys. There was the Lions games at Rugby Park there up in New Plymouth, and I remember being at all of those.
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