Jeff Schoep

So they're fighting with this in their head for a long time.

For different people, it's different things.

Sometimes it's just seeing the humanity in the people that you once dehumanized.

And for some people, it's something staggering.

You know, like I can think of, I'm just thinking of a couple of the cases that I've worked on.

And like one guy, his son committed suicide and he had brought his whole family into the movement.

and he felt like it was the ideology that did that, and that's what helped shift him.

And this was a lifelong guy, like this guy's in his 60s, you know, he'd been in forever.

I would've never, like Daryl said, you never think some people are gonna change, and he changed.

And there's another family that I helped out this last year, and they've got 11 kids under the age of 18.

And for them, it was seeing how it was affecting their children.

Some of them have disabilities and things like that, and they were seeing how the quality of life, being involved in this, it's heavy.

It's a great burden.

And it's not something that you wish on your children.

It's not something that you want them to move forward with.

So for them, it was seeing how their children were affected.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Later on in the group, there was paramilitary training.

There was a rank structure.