Jenny Holland

That's all we've got time for now.

Thank you to Frank Walker, Jenny Holland, producer Cameron Wallace.

I think that it's interesting that he was drawn to this by things outside himself.

The greater society and the problems that it had, that's what's bringing a lot of people to it now.

And then his children, he felt like they needed the education.

I can't just raise them and have not them teach Christianity.

Then he realized that he's the same way.

He needs that too.

He's admitting some things that atheists would never admit.

about the meaning of life now.

And that's amazing to me.

But also, and this is so important, the prayers itself, surrounded by prayer,

In the church, you know, my father was the same way.

He went to mass all the time to make my mother happy and to make his mother happy because it was a habit, but he never really believed anything.

But now in his dotage, he's starting to believe it because the prayers, they break that wall of atheism.

Atheism is sort of a wall.

And here it seems to be broken by reaching outside himself to his children, caring for them, caring for society, and then the prayers of being surrounded by that.

It works miracles.

Yeah, they're throwing everything that they can at him.

They're accusing him of being all about violence, of being lawless.