Jeremy Hunt

And I'm not saying, and this is very important, that we are talking about cutting the state pension.

I want an inflation guarantee.

I want every pensioner to have the security of knowing that the state pension will at least match increases in prices.

But I do think it would be a good thing if the parties recognised that this is something that is just...

unaffordable and wrong.

Well, look at the...

What is the big radical reform?

I mean, there's lots of things we need to do on welfare, but I think the big one that everyone knows in their heart of hearts is right, is that people who have mild or moderate anxiety or depression, we should be giving them treatment, not parking them on benefits, which, by the way, will lead to more social isolation and probably make the anxiety and depression worse.

And it will be a fraction of the cost.

And I think that that is something that a government can win the argument for with the public.

I think the public

Profoundly agree with that.

And if you coupled tough reforms to welfare with a big increase in mental health provision in the NHS, I think the public would say that makes sense.

I think it's absolutely winnable.

I actually think that if you look over the 14 years of Conservative governments, there were plenty of examples where actually things were done in those terms.

Difficult decisions were taken.

And then Brexit came like a big hiatus.

Actually, I would disagree with you.

And I know this is something that a lot of people would disagree with as well.

But, you know, when the Conservatives came to office, I think everyone kind of forgets