Jerod Santo

And so I'm not saying there should be a third effort, but like, are there things you've learned about Deno or do you have Deno regrets at this point? It's been long enough. Everybody has regrets, right? Yeah.

And so I'm not saying there should be a third effort, but like, are there things you've learned about Deno or do you have Deno regrets at this point? It's been long enough. Everybody has regrets, right? Yeah.

So you initially started with a clean cut from NPM as well with your own URL based imports. And you basically had to do that stuff because there's so much, like you said, there's extant code out there. There's packages that you just don't want to have to re-implement. on the Deno side, because let's be realistic.

So you initially started with a clean cut from NPM as well with your own URL based imports. And you basically had to do that stuff because there's so much, like you said, there's extant code out there. There's packages that you just don't want to have to re-implement. on the Deno side, because let's be realistic.

I mean, when Node came out, I remember that first call for contributors that you gave, and it was like, come create things for Node.js because it was available for use, but there was no standard library, there was no

I mean, when Node came out, I remember that first call for contributors that you gave, and it was like, come create things for Node.js because it was available for use, but there was no standard library, there was no

code there to use and people did it was amazing i mean it was like the frontier of web development uh server-side was make a node package for this i mean the person who made the grpc package initially of course that was probably years later i'm not sure when grpc became interesting to folks but that person it was greenfield and they were probably highly motivated to do that but nowadays it's like well i already have node i have a grpc over here in npm

code there to use and people did it was amazing i mean it was like the frontier of web development uh server-side was make a node package for this i mean the person who made the grpc package initially of course that was probably years later i'm not sure when grpc became interesting to folks but that person it was greenfield and they were probably highly motivated to do that but nowadays it's like well i already have node i have a grpc over here in npm

It's now a barrier to Deno, right? It's no longer Greenfield. It's like, do I want to rewrite this or port it over? And so when did you guys make that call? And was that a tough one to finally, it's a pragmatic choice. Like you have to kind of ditch a little bit of the pure idealism of the fresh start, right?

It's now a barrier to Deno, right? It's no longer Greenfield. It's like, do I want to rewrite this or port it over? And so when did you guys make that call? And was that a tough one to finally, it's a pragmatic choice. Like you have to kind of ditch a little bit of the pure idealism of the fresh start, right?

Yeah, exactly. And you can't, you have to meet people where they are, you know, for them to actually benefit because you're trying to make software that's A, used by the mass developers and B, has to then be useful to all of them or many of them. You're not happy, like you said, writing a niche runtime that 500 people use.

Yeah, exactly. And you can't, you have to meet people where they are, you know, for them to actually benefit because you're trying to make software that's A, used by the mass developers and B, has to then be useful to all of them or many of them. You're not happy, like you said, writing a niche runtime that 500 people use.

Back in the day, go back seven years, I know you had this initial idea and it was like, I think in that initial speech you said that Node kind of offended some of your sensibilities over time. And I know there's a lot of personal history there and there's job-related stuff and lots of baggage there, just mental baggage. I'm sure it was just more fun to start fresh with something else.

Back in the day, go back seven years, I know you had this initial idea and it was like, I think in that initial speech you said that Node kind of offended some of your sensibilities over time. And I know there's a lot of personal history there and there's job-related stuff and lots of baggage there, just mental baggage. I'm sure it was just more fun to start fresh with something else.

But now that you're competing with your previous creation in terms of getting people to use Deno and That's probably an uphill battle because Node is established and it's like the de facto. And it's probably hard to move certain people.

But now that you're competing with your previous creation in terms of getting people to use Deno and That's probably an uphill battle because Node is established and it's like the de facto. And it's probably hard to move certain people.

Is there an alternate world where instead of starting fresh that you just said, like, I'm either going to fork Node and start from there and change these things or I'm going to rejoin the Node technical steering committee and like... I don't know if that could have even happened, but like moved it in a direction because then you wouldn't have to regain all these users.

Is there an alternate world where instead of starting fresh that you just said, like, I'm either going to fork Node and start from there and change these things or I'm going to rejoin the Node technical steering committee and like... I don't know if that could have even happened, but like moved it in a direction because then you wouldn't have to regain all these users.

You'd have all the millions of users already.

You'd have all the millions of users already.