Jesse Michels

Yeah, yeah, he did.

And then you have this like transformation of this guy from this petty criminal who's being caught and released to this like sex god cult leader musician, you know, in LA who's like living with one of the Beach Boys.

Right, right.

It's just this like, you know, day and night sort of thing.

So I guess the meta question here is if you have...

a guy like manson who's an mk ultra patient and then you have a guy like mcveigh who's an mk ultra patient these people are committing horrific acts why would the government like the cia like a guy who had top secret clearance for the cia jolly west or any of these people program uh american citizens to murder other american citizens

Can you create a chain of Manchurian candidates?

So this is really creepy.

But what if the psychiatrist themselves is a Manchurian candidate and they are doing treatments that they're not even aware of to their patient?

I know, but how does anybody know?

I mean, you document all these people who are cutouts and not even like, you know, connected explicitly.

And then what if they're themselves compartmentalized?

Yeah.

None of the people who actually committed the crimes and then all of the people in the documents all happened to not go to the, not commit any crimes.

You know, most of them say we didn't go to the island.

It's preposterous.

It's absolutely preposterous.

Okay.

I have a crazy question about him.

Do you think he, do you think he was an MKUltra patient?