Jesse Michels

So we're just more, I mean, John Lilly, who we were talking about the inspiration for the day of the dolphin.

He kind of invented the isolation tank, and he would take a lot of ketamine and would get into these dissociative states.

And he even, I think at one point, summoned this thing he called the SSI, the solid state entity, and would communicate with this sort of alien intelligence.

And he wrote a book called, I think, was it Human Programming and Metaprogramming?

I think so.

So just on the note of what you're saying, it just feels like humans are far more programmable.

We don't think of ourselves as suggestible.

We think of ourselves as sort of fixed.

But in fact, we're way more impressionable than we'd ever believe.

Yeah, it's really hard.

Humans are extremely mimetic and, uh, you know, you just sort of ideas or fashion statements and you see it, especially on social media is like really amplifies this because it's a hall of mirrors.

So if you're not saying the thing that's really popular right now, then you're falling behind and you're not staying relevant or something.

That is so crazy.

That is so crazy.

Do you think people like Jolly West...

tried to affect culture via celebrity like i actually i met a woman who was charlton heston's daughter-in-law it's really sweet lady and um if you're out there hello

And she, you know, Charlton Heston, obviously, you know, is a legendary actor, but Charlton Heston was this NRA champion.

So he was this, you know, National Rifle Association, you know, when shootings would happen, he would sort of be in the counter rally saying, you know, protect the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms.

That's right.

And that, you know, and if anything, it mitigates violence and all this stuff.