Jesse Zhang

And again, it's not the only way to build a company.

But in my opinion, if you were just trying to optimize for like the highest likelihood of success, I think you should really index on the commercial side because a lot of super smart, intellectually curious people that are just building products

very cool projects.

And you can make the argument for a lot of huge outcomes.

You need to do that because you just need to do stuff where like no one's going to work on this because where are the commercial elements of this?

But I think, I think Oshima is this way too.

It's made a good fit.

I think we're just like very locked in on, okay, you just got to be like super practical.

Yeah, for us, I mean, one thing we do always is we always have like a flagpole that's within sight that can just kind of rally everyone around it.

Having things to rally around are quite helpful.

I was kind of thinking about this the other day.

I think another type of

rallying is around competition, right?

I think when people feel like they're in a battle and there's like clear enemies, then it makes sense.

Again, you don't want to get to the point where there's like active animosity, but it's a kind of healthy level of competition.

It ties the team together because there's like something to focus on.

Same thing with milestones.

Like if you give someone a, everyone a clear milestone and this can be like pretty significant.

Like last year we had for our revenue milestone, we told everyone we'd get them like super nice jackets.

And we got like Decagon Arcteryx jackets and everyone was like super excited about that.