Jessie Stephens

And also as the interviewer, you only get a good interview if somebody's open and feeling

And so you're very much looking for that rather than defensiveness.

But some of this red carpet content stuff, I think, has changed that dynamic a bit.

Because to your point, Jessie, about Cole and his 12 million TikTokers, it's not really clear what the power dynamic is there.

No.

Like he needs them and they need him, but in a very literal way.

And he has the power to ruin their reputations because everybody loves a bit of a she was a bitch, he didn't leave a tip, whatever, stories about a celebrity.

We love them.

All anyone listening to this now wants to know who Jessie's worked with who was rude to the crew because these are the kind of stories we like more than anything.

I think we particularly like them about women more than men because obviously we're waiting for them to fall into the bitch category.

And so I can see that, you know, I mean, I have no idea what kind of person J-Lo is, generally speaking.

But let's say, as he said, this was the end of the carpet.

Everyone was rushed.

Maybe she's just like, oh, now I've got to go and do that thing for that guy with the 12 million followers.

I can kind of get it.

I don't think it necessarily means she's evil, but I am interested in how it kind of translates.

You know, when you watch those young female celebrities being screamed at by the wall of paps, well, they're not paps really at those events, press photographers, the way those photographers speak to them is actually quite shocking.

And they're often fully grown men who are incredibly aggressive.

And a little unusual.

And paparazzi, that kind of street paparazzi, they'll deliberately yell provocative things to try and get a reaction because they want your face in a certain way.