Joe Allen

Certainly the advancement of technology is the goal, but the way he sees it is that the reckless deployment of this and the reckless development of these technologies is

They threaten the ability of human beings to do anything.

They're crippling us at best and will destroy us, in his mind, destroy every human being on earth at worst.

And he's the extreme case.

Start walking it back and you get guys like Jack Clark or you get guys like Elon Musk who, if we take them at their word, as they watch these technologies develop, they actually...

perceive, I think, a real danger in the technology itself beyond any justification for the benefits.

For a long time, Steve, I was pretty cynical about Musk's statements.

I've oftentimes said that Elon Musk is nothing but a cyborg car dealer, and I still stand by that.

But having gotten to know a number of people who know Musk personally...

I don't think that his concerns about artificial intelligence are disingenuous or meant to build up hype.

No, you're not.

And that's the craziest part about it.

Am I wrong in that?

Musk would be like, yeah, I know, not at all.

In fact, that is the dominant thrust coming through the Trump administration and in the companies that you're talking about.

You see it with the data centers going up everywhere.

You see it in the just open push towards general and then super intelligence.

I think...

The best way to look at it is historically, just a real brief history, and it was, oddly enough, it was Max Tegmark from the Future of Life Institute who told me how he watched it unfold.

And, of course, he's friends with most, if not all, of these people.