Joe Hudson

Well, the dauntingness, I think, of fully being seen is to do with it being alien.

Yeah.

It's to do with it being unfamiliar.

Yeah.

Um, it's to do with a level of transparency and openness, uh, that isn't, you're not used to, and it's,

It must be like being a, for want of a better example, like a mistreated puppy or something.

And this puppy has been taught that every time somebody raises a hand at it, it should cower awake because it's going to get hit.

But this time the hand gets raised and it gets a pat on the head.

And it needs to learn over time it cowers less and less and less.

And then it actually learns to love the hand that comes down toward it.

Depatterning.

that response takes time.

So that's the daunting side, the daunting and intense side.

The reason that I said the real world was there was a story the first day that we came out, me and one of the other guys went for a massage.

She said body work would be a really good idea.

This beautiful, peaceful, very calm reception waiting area of the Thai massage parlor in a sleepy village in Sonoma County was too intense that we had to leave and go outside.

Like this is, you know, there's like a little USB plugged in waterfall and like,

plink plonk music playing in the background like we we're gonna we're gonna go stand in the courtyard because we're like i kind of i don't know what the fuck's good what did you call it uh not spirit sick not dope sick like something hangover spirit hangover oh uh vulnerability hangover maybe i use that word i feel it was something else sick as well anyway um we go outside what it made me realize is that

There's one level of difficulty, which is within a safe container, learning that the hand is going to come and pat you, not beat you.

The next one is now going out into a world filled with hands.