Joe Loya

And his dad was terrible in that regard.

But Frank said, I've been trying to articulate this, but you articulated it so well because I don't feel like I need to forgive my dad.

And nobody understands that.

He said, I really appreciate that.

Behind him was a guy named Brayton Brayton Buck, who was this great poet from South Africa.

He came from a big family.

Breitenbachs were prime ministers and generals and that kind of thing.

But in the 60s, he became a radical.

He ran with Mandela's crew, the African National Congress, and he had to leave the country because there was death threats.

He snuck back a few years later to see his mother.

He was snitched on, and they arrested him, and he did time with Nelson Mandela.

Now he was free.

He's a great poet, sensitive, sweet man.

He comes up to me after I talk about how I didn't forgive my dad.

And he was like, man, that's exactly how I feel about my guards.

I don't need to forgive them.

I have compassion for them.

So I feel like this idea, if you've gone through really terrible abuse by people,

And one of the ways you can let go of this trauma of having been brutalized by authority is to realize it wasn't about you and find a way to move away from it, not with forgiveness, but with compassion for them.

Like that's the way they were raised to see the world.